- It is not a full transcript of questions and responses, but is intended as a summary. Timestamps are included against the topics discussed, so that those who wish can listen to the responses in full.
A Little Background
Brad Oberwager
Brad Oberwager is one of the three investors who acquired Linden Lab in 2020, together with J. Randall (Randy) Waterfield and Raj Date. Since the acquisition closed, he has been very hands-on at Linden Lab, working alongside members of the management team, and he has also brought-in long-time business associate Cammy Bergren as the company’s Chief of Staff.
His biography, as supplied by the Lab reads as follows:
Brad Oberwager has spent his entire career in technology and consumer focused companies as an entrepreneur and board member.
Currently, he sits on the board of two public companies, Asure Software (NASDAQ: ASUR) and Better World (NASDAQ: BWACU). He is the chairman of two companies he founded, Jyve and Sundia and is also on the board of TEGSCO (aka AutoReturn). He owned Bare Snacks, acquired by PepsiCo in 2018.
Brad was Vice-chair of YPO International, a global organization of 25,000 CEOs [where he met and became friends with J. Randall Waterfield, another of the Lab’s owners / board member].
Brad received his BS from Georgetown University, his MBA from the Wharton School and lives in San Francisco.
Philip Rosedale
Philip Rosedale earned a Bachelor of Science degree in physics and computer science from the University of California, San Diego, and in 1985 he created a video conferencing product called “FreeVue”, which was ultimately purchased by Real Networks, for whom he went to work, rising to the positions vice president and chief technology officer.
Departing Real Networks at the end of the 1990s, he founded Linden Research Inc (functioning as Linden Lab), and commenced work on trying to develop both the hardware and software for an immersive virtual reality system. The company switched to focusing on the software – which it called LindenWorld -, launching it as a publicly-accessible platform under the name Second Life in 2003. As founder and CEO, Rosedale steered the company through until 2008, when he stepped back from the role of CEO to become chair of the board of directors.
In 2009, he founded LoveMachine Inc., with Ryan Downe, which later evolved into Coffer and Power (2011), with Rosedale briefly returning to Linden Lab in 2010 as interim CEO. After two years developing a mobile application called Workclub that helped bring contractors and those seeking them together, he and Downe announced Coffee & Power would become a new company, High Fidelity Inc. (2013), focused on building a fully decentralised virtual reality environments, and the required supporting applications / services. In 2019, High Fidelity ceased working on this platform to focus on one of the key supporting services: spatial audio, with their product subsequently being licensed by a number of companies.
In 2021, High Fidelity invested in Linden Research, brining in both staff and patents that might be used with the platform, and while High Fidelity still very much operates as an independent entity, Rosedale took the part-time position of Strategic Advisor to Linden Lab.
Questions Specific to Brad Oberwager
2.5 Years On From Acquiring LL, How Does He Feel Things Are Going?
- While he acquired Linden Research, has come to realise he doesn’t “own” Second Life; the users and the staff at the Lab “own” Second Life, and he feels he is along for the ride.
- Has been so welcomed by the user base and the staff at the Lab over 2.5 years, doesn’t think of it as owning and running a company so much as having a moral imperative to ensure Second Life continues for the next 20 years.
- As such sees the platform as less of a business in the fullest sense of the word, but as something which must be allowed to continue.
- Looking at the metrics, feels that the platform is very stable overall (although there has been a small decline in active users).
- Feels the most complicated issue with Second Life is, given its size and overall cost to maintain and run and the limited resources LL necessarily has, how to balance the focus / expenditure between growing the platform’s capabilities to the benefit of its current active user base and bringing-in new users and engaging them in the platform to keep things vibrant and fresh. As such, his major worry regarding SL and his management of the company is – in his words – “don’t eff it up!”
Has It Been Easy / Hard to Add His Own Imprint to the Platform?
- Has never intended or tried to imprint himself on SL. Rather, he has always seen his goal as being “releasing the Lindens to do what they love to make Second Life the best for the community”, and to provide the resources required in order for this to happen.
- Notes that this is not entirely altruistic: Linden Lab / Second Life both have a business value, and SL is not inexpensive to run. However, believes that this approach is the best path by which to make Second Life more valuable as a business.
- Feels that his acquisition of Linden Lab [with J. Randal Waterfield] amounted to a fundamental shift in the company from one being run by venture capitalists [where ROI might be a guiding factor], to a partnership in which a longer-term view could be taken, including the splitting-off of business elements [e.g. Tilia] to allow the available resources to freed-up to focus on the platform.
- He hopes this last point has been understood and welcomed by users.
What is the Status Re: a New CEO?
- Traditionally, the role of the CEO is to take care of the general running of an organisation – taking ultimate responsibility for things like allocating resources, budgets, setting the culture and tone for the business, etc., on the basis of input from the executive level managers, and to manage the Board from the bottom-up, whilst the Chair of the board manages the latter from the top down.
- Insofar as Second Life is concerned, these duties / responsibilities are being managed by a team of individuals called, internally, TOOSL [“too-sol” – The Office Of Second Life, comprising Brett Linden, Grumpity Linden, Mojo Linden and Patch Linden in their various Vice President roles].
- Brad himself is Executive Chairman, meaning he is hands-on involved in running Linden Research as a company, as well as managing the board [comprising himself, J. Randal Waterfield and Raj Date].
- As Executive Chair, Brad has the TOOSL team reporting into him – a dynamic which works, and which negates the need for a “Second Life CEO”, while his position as hands-on Executive Chair for the company means he is a kind of de facto corporate CEO without actually taking the title.
- Given this structure, there are no plans to hire-in a CEO,, but the roles performed by a “traditional” CEO are being performed.
As An Investor, What Does He Value Most About SL?
- Asks that people remember that he doesn’t look at Second Life primarily as a investor.
- However, as an investor, particularly values the consistency of the experience and the loyalty of the users, both of which mark SL as a good business, and the fact he can achieve all his goals as an investor through his active involvement in managing and running the Lab (and by extension, Second Life).
Tilia Update
- Believes questions on Tilia are born of two things: positive curiosity and unfounded fears.
- The fears are based on the idea that having the Lab focus on “non-SL” activities takes away resources from SL. While not commenting on situations prior to his arrival, he would note that Second Life cannot exist without Tilia, because of its management of the financial elements involved within the platform – the ability to purchase virtual goods, to exchange physical world currencies [“fiat money”, to use the technical term] and Linden Dollars and back again, etc.
- As such, Tilia is not some spin-off project within the Lab. Rather, it enables Linden Lab to adhere to a complicated series of state, federal and international financial requirements and regulations. If it did not exist, LL would have to go out and obtain the services Tilia provides – and be locked into the structure of those services without any ownership of them.
- However, as Linden Lab owns Tilia, it presents added security to Second Life [as the company maintains control of the services] whilst allowing LL to market the services Tilia provides to other interested parties. This has two additional benefits:
- As such, any success for Tilia reflects well on Second Life.
Questions Specific to Philip Rosedale
What Inspired Him to create Second Life?
- In the late 1990s attempted to develop The Rig a virtual reality system, working with Andrew (now Leviathan, since his return to LL from High Fidelity) Linden.
- Nine months into this work, the team started developing the virtual world itself – at that time intended to be a physics simulation of an enormous world, rather than an avatar-based world. A place where the laws of physics could be tested an constructs made.
- As people within the company started using the software and getting caught up within it, the focus shifted to developing the virtual world itself and presenting it as an immersive experience.
- [As many know, that led to the development of LindenWorld, and copies of a 2001 video of that environment, populated by “Primitars” (as they were built from the world’s primitives) can still be found on You Tube.]
- Never thought the platform would still be going 20 years on, let alone the rich diversity of activities and content, and is “deeply, deeply happy” with the way the platform has flourished and adopted / adapted by users.
What Worries / Excites Him Most for the Future of SL?
- Is excited about the fact that – even without the need for headsets – SL is seen as being a leader within the field, and feels that it is a fundamental demonstration of how people can positively spend time within virtual environments – “the metaverse” (alongside the few other multi-person virtual worlds that have managed to survive), and how a virtual world can both positively empower and bring people from all backgrounds together.
- Is also concerned that the increasing AI toolset that is gaining greater use, coupled with the spread of misinformation, could, if mis-applied to virtual worlds, lead to things going “horribly wrong” if there are a lot of people using those virtual spaces.
- As such, has spent much of his time of late trying to articulate the positive strengths of SL, and how they could be positive influence within social media, digital currencies, etc.
What is His Role at Linden Lab / Within Second Life?
- Notes that the relationship between Second Life and Linden Lab is unusually dynamic, as the growth of each informs the other.
- Due to the multiple inputs to and uses of the platform, it doesn’t lend itself to the “traditional” form of reactive, product-led, top-down management, and so support’s Brad’s comment vis the role of CEO.
- His own role is that of Second Life Strategic Advisor, being available to help consult on areas where his opinion / expertise is concerned. However, notes that as he is busy on multiple fronts, his direct involvement in Second Life’s development takes the form of “a little of my time and a lot of my love.”
Continue reading “SL20B Lab Gab: Brad Oberwager and Philip Rosedale – summary notes + video”
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