| On Monday, May 20th, 2024, Linden Lab held its first Community Round Table – described as opportunities for Second Life users to meet, hear from and address senior staff from the Lab on various subjects, etc.
Intended to be the first such event, this session featured Brad Oberwager – Oberwolf Linden – co-owner and Executive Chairman of Linden Research (Linden Lab), and Grumpity Linden, Senior VP of Product & Engineering with Brett Linden, the Lab’s Director of Marketing, chairing the event as moderator. |
Table of Contents |
The session lasted 90 minutes, and – as might be expected given recent policy changes in the wake of allegations / concerns and the announcement about the sale of Tilia Inc., as well as interest in technology development such as Second Life Mobile – there was a certain focus to discussions and questions. It was recorded by multiple parties, and is available on You Tube, including by my informal partner-in-crime for attending and recording such sessions and meetings, Pantera Północy, and that video is embedded at the end of this article – my thanks, as always, for her doing so.
What follows is not a full transcript of the meeting, but rather my best attempt to summarise core topics plus questions and answers. Included are extracts from my own audio recording of the session where I have deemed them to be relevant / helpful. When listening to them please note that:
- They have been edited to remove pauses, incomplete or self-corrected comments/ sentences, and/or repetition. This has been done to (hopefully) improve the flow of the audio and remove distractions.
- All such editing has been carried out without any intentional attempts to alter any of the context of what is being said by the speaker.
- Timestamps for the video recording are given within the topic heading below, so that if there is any doubt, audio extracts can be compared to a complete, unedited version.
- This is a summary by subject matter – as such, timestamp references to the video may not be in chronological order.
Introduction and Setting Expectations – Brett Linden
[Video: 0:00-3:00]
- Noted the session was designed to be the first in a series of Round Table events with members of the Lab’s leadership.
- Reminded people that it is a new initiative for everyone – including those at the Lab, and as such lessons will be taken from the session as to what works / does not work and use this to adjust the format for future Round Table Events.
- Stated that local chat would be tracked for questions from the audience, and attempts would be made to address them, but:
- Due to time constraints / the volume of questions submitted by the pre-meeting form, those would be the focus of topics discussed and the feedback offered.
- Some questions might be deferred, simply because those representing LL might not be the best-placed to give an answer (e.g. technical questions or similar), with a note that many of these might be best addressed at the various user group meetings (refer also to the Second Life public calendar for meeting times and date).
- Indicated that as a Round Table, the flow was intended to be two-way, not just outwards from LL, and as such responses / feedback in chat would be taken away for review.
- Set the general parameters of the session (e.g. individual issues, such as with account matters, support, etc., would not be addressed in the session; use of the Feedback Portal for putting forward bug reports, requests and ideas, noting this is viewed from the top-down at Linden Lab.
Making SL Better as the Lab’s Owner – Oberwolf Linden
- Offered context on his perspective, noting he sees Linden Lab and Second Life as two different entities, so has different perspectives on each.
- In 3.5 years of ownership, has learned that there is a huge amount of passion for the platform across the board – residents, creators, Lab staff, and even from many outside of the platform (noting the latter can be both positive and negative).
- Re-iterated his belief that he sees running Second Life as a moral imperative, as it benefits so many.
- Sees the platform’s complexity not just in technical terms, but in making it the platform the best experience for those engaged in it as residents / creators – because we all have different wants and needs. Specifically highlighted:
- Operating the Linden Dollar whilst ensuring the majority of fiat money passing through the LindeX goes to creators.
- The fact that SL is a virtual world for adults, supporting content and activities other platforms do not allow, and the need to make the platform safe for all those using it, not matter what their interests.
- The need for policies and process to enable the above.
- As such, believes that running the platform is about relying on values, rather than trying to solve for everything, as the latter means a state of utopia wherein everything is a bland uniformity.
- Therefore improving the platform needs to be seen as how, collectively – Lab, residents and creators – can work to make the platform the best it can be.
- For the lab, this means being guided by the Tao of Linden:
- Walk in Our Residents’ Shoes: To consider everything – up to and including the kind of projects the Lab can take on with the resources available – in terms of what benefits Second Life users the most.
- Be Brave. Fail Fast. Fail Forward: broadly means trying things but without breaking other things, and learning from what does and does not work, and learn from it.
- Assume Good Intent and Practice Good Intent: notes this as the hardest – but the Lab really tries to assume good intent in all things – including negative feedback from users – and to take that aspect and work both internally and with users (as much as possible) to bring about positive change.
- Believes that by relying on values and using the Tao helps the Lab to not just be in service to Second Life but an active part of it.
- A further part of bringing about change for the better in Second Life is about users accepting the reverse of the Tao: that the Lab is trying to make changes with good intent, to improve the platform and keep it relevant, even if the change is seen by some as impacting them negatively.
- As a part of the above, one of the changes LL is trying to make is to be more transparent about what they are doing and why they are doing it – which is not always easy as changes tend to cause people to react in one of three ways, depending on how it affects them: enthusiasm for it; indifference to it; anxiety / anger against it.
- His particular focus on making SL better is that of resources: where should the available time money, resources and her personal energy go.
- Commented that the above forms the content of what he will go on to say during the session, and that is was fully aware that his comments may well be parsed, and accepts that as a part of trying to be more transparent.
Child Avatar Policy
Preface – Grumpity Linden
[Video: 17:09-18:55, 19:27-20:23 and 21:25-21:40]
- The updates to the Child Avatar Policy were put together with considerable consultant with Lab employees / contractors who use child avatars as Alt accounts, and with some members of the various child avatar groups in Second Life.
- Pointed to the recent Governance meeting on the matter at which many of the questions raised in advance of this Round Table had already been addressed (and referenced this blog – thank you, Grumpity, that’s much appreciated!). Links for reference:
- Meeting Video by Pantera.
- 2024 SL Governance meeting week #19: Child Avatar Policy – summary in this blog.
- Indicated that the Lab will continue to give clarification on the policy in response to feedback, with the Child Policy FAQ being the best place to read the most recent updates.
- Re-iterated that Linden Lab does value the breadth and depth of Second Life user community, and welcomes those who role-play as child avatars for positive reasons.
- Requested that people understand that the changes made to the Child Avatar Policy have been done with good intent, and to both protect those role-playing with child avatars and the Lab itself from all moral, ethical and legal accusations about the sexualisation of child avatars in SL or their use in sexual role-play.
Policy and Changes – Broader Context – Oberwolf Linden
- These changes are not only driven by the internal needs of Second Life / Linden Lab but also by external needs. For example:
- If PayPal were to encounter reports of apparent inappropriate behaviour involving minors in Second Life and without proper context, they might react by withdrawing support for payments to / from the platform through their service, with a potentially massive negative impact on the platform.
- Both Apple and Google also have terms and conditions governing apps being placed on their services and these also have to be not only taken into consideration but adhered to if SL users are to be able to obtain the Mobile app when available.
- Ergo, when policies, terms of use, etc., are being drawn up and / or updated, there may well be external aspects / legal ramifications impacting them, requirements demanded by other companies and / or society as a whole, none of which may actually understand Second Life – but may well negatively react to unfavourable reports, etc., about the platform without ever seeking to understand the realities of the platform / situation.
- All of this applies to almost everything the Lab does with Second Life, and why he says that making the platform “better” is so complicated: there are many aspects to changes – technical, policy, etc., – that extend well beyond the platform’s active users – especially with regards to his own moral imperative to keep the platform going so it can continue to be a place of safety, fun and importance for so many.
Modesty Layers
- The modesty Layer for child avatars will come into effect from Sunday, June 30th, 2024.
- The Child Policy FAQ is the place to find out the latest information on the modesty layer requirements, and is updated regularly.
- It was stated there would be a further Governance User Group meeting to discuss the policy and requirements on Thursday, June 13th, 2024 [Note: at the time of writing this summary, the June dates for the Governance meetings are given as June 6th and June 20th, so best to check the Second Life public calendar to see if an additional meeting is added, or if one of these two dates is actually used].
Questions
- [Video: 49:20-52:03] What form can the modesty layer take?
- The modesty layer on child avatars must not be removable. Ergo, it cannot be an alpha layer or any form of wearable layers, as these can be removed and replaced.
- All skins for child avatars (those presenting as under 18) must have a baked-on modesty layer.
- The Governance team is (or is due) to have discussions with affected content creators on implementing modesty layers, etc.
- [Video: 54:06-57:49] Under the updated Child Avatar Policy, will consulting adults using adult presenting avatars still be able to use pet names such as “mummy”, “baby”, “baby girl”, etc., which might subjective be judged as being child-like behaviour?
- In the context of the question, yes they will. This is not about limiting people’s second lives per se, it is about being compliant with society’s expectations vis. the sexualisation of minors and the use of under-age characters in a sexual context, and emerging laws (such as those in the EU) emerging to safeguard against this.
- [Video: 57:47-59:08] Are youthful anime avatars subject to the updated Child Avatar Policy?
- The rule of thumb is that if someone is presenting an avatar under the age of 18 and is role-playing a character under the age of 18, then they must comply with the policy.
- In dealing with issues, LL look at a range of factors: how the avatar presents, the contents of the avatar profile, and multiple other factors; the fact that an anime avatar has large eyes and a child-like face would not be taken as the sole indication it is presenting and being used as someone under 18.
- [Video 59:09-1:02:25] Oberwolf Linden noted:
- Many of the questions on the Child Avatar Policy are requesting rigid, black-and-white responses, when really, there needs to be some wriggle-room, which the Lab is trying to give through some of their answers.
- Hard-and-fast rules would be too restrictive on people, so there has to be some greyness.
- People must use their own common sense; they will know when they see sexualised.
- Users need to trust that the Lab are not doing things like the Child Avatar Policy changes in a vacuum; they are trying to find a way to safeguard Second Life without unduly restricting people’s ability to have an enjoyable Second Life.
- [Video 62:25-63:58] Could the policy be abused – 20 people make false claims against a specific user and have then banned?
- Sort answer: no. Abuse Reports are fully investigated, and only where there is substantive evidence to support the report’s claims, is action taken.
- The number of reports received about an individual / situation does not factor into any investigation – so it doesn’t matter if one report or 20 reports are filed.
- The Governance User Group is the place to learn about the Abuse Report process.
- [Video: 63:59-67:43] A statement was made about finding it upsetting that those invested in their child avatar might now be unable to attend things like concerts because they are being hosted on Adult regions.
- Oberwolf concurred that situations like this are upsetting. However, as noted above, pointed out that there considerations external to SL which need to be taken into account, as these sadly do place limitations on where those presenting as children can go to help protect the platform as a whole.
- As such, he begs people to be flexible and while it might be discomforting to them, if there is an event they really want to attend that is off-limits to child avatars, to change to an avatar presenting as over 18 and help safeguard SL for the future.
Age Verification – Grumpity Linden
- The Lab is investigating third-party age verification tools.
- Any option that may be selected has to be the least intrusive possible; the aim is not to put road blocks that prevent people from enjoying their SL.
- Any third party partner LL might select for the verification process must be compliant with all current data privacy laws. Companies that do not store data beyond the point of verification “all look very reasonable”
- However, no decision has been made “one way or the other” on the use of such tools; they are currently only under consideration for possible adoption.
Thunes and Tilia – Oberwolf Linden
- It was announced on April 23rd, 2024 that Linden Research was selling io, their all-in-one payments platform to Singapore-based business-2-business (B2B) payments infrastructure firm Thunes (see: Linden Lab to sell payments platform Tilia to Thunes).
- This announcement was followed by a Lab Gab special on the news (see below), which I summarised here.
- Many of the questions raised for the Round Table were answered in that – so please refer to my summary / the video below.
- In brief:
- Thunes is acquiring Tilia – not the Linden Dollar of the LindeX – the latter remain fully under the Lab’s control.
- Thunes is not gaining access to Second Life user data beyond the financial information they require to manage transactions (e.g. L$ purchases, processing payments from SL to fiat money accounts).
- Tilia will be rebranded to Thunes, but will continue to operate out of San Francisco as its primary base of operations.
- In terms of benefits to Second Life users, they will be able to take advantage of many more options to pay for L$ and by which the money they cash out from Second Life can reach them – these include a broader range of supported currencies, the use of digital wallets, etc.
- There are no plans at the Lab – who set them – to change the current fees charged in relations to L$ transactions or cashing out, as a result of the sale of Tilia. However:
- A caveat to this was the acknowledgement that is Thunes decide to significantly increase the fees they charge LL for using their services, then that might be “problematic” for LL.
- The above does not mean LL will never change fees: the LindeX and SL cost money to run. As such, future changes to fees (up or down) to cover the likes of increased costs or to address improvements or shifting requirements, may occur.
- A guiding principle used in the decision to sell Tilia to Thunes was the benefit it could bring to Second Life users – not simply who is offer the most money.
- In response to a question asked, PayPal will continue to be supported, and the relationship will not change as a result of the Tilia deal.
SL Mobile – Grumpity Linden
- Accessing Adult regions:
- SL Mobile is currently blocked from accessing Adult rated regions in SL. This is due to policies set by the App Store providers on the types of content they will accept for apps being sold through their services.
- LL are trying to refine this to a more granular level to allow access to Adult regions – such as having the App not display Adult content, although this is a complex solution to implement.
- Ultimately LL would like to bring all of Second Life to Mobile, and so is continuing to examine ways and means to do so.
- There are no major new announcements for Mobile at present. However:
- The app is getting “closer” to being listed on the app stores – but no indication as to when this might actually happen.
- Gaining a listing will allow LL to open the SL Mobile programme to Premium subscribers.
- Oberwolf Linden made an impassioned plea for users to give the Lab time to develop and enhance the Mobile App, requesting:
- People not try to hack around the Adult rating block, as this will likely result in the app getting thrown off of the app stores.
- Not to get too upset or negative about functionality they think is “missing” – such as buying L$ or viewing the Marketplace, etc. These are capabilities that LL will try to address, but they will require more time.
- To review the App on their preferred app store – but to do so honestly and whilst keeping in mind that there will be much more to do and add to the app to improve it.
- To give the team working on the app time and space to add functionality and options as they continue to work on it once it is on the app stores, and not just see it as a finished product.
General Questions
- Skill Gaming: a question was asked on how possible abuses of Sill Gaming system (e.g. unfair pay-outs, etc) are investigated and how the Lab monitors Skill Gaming systems.
- The short answer was that abuses are investigated in a similar manner as other abuses in SL, and specifics on investigation techniques, etc., cannot be provided.
- Those believing they have been subject to abuse as a result of participating in a skill games should file an abuse report and provide as much information as possible.
- Adult Content: what is the future of Adult content in SL and initiatives such as the Zindra Adult continent? Addressed by Brett Linden.
- LL have no intention of changing the dynamic of Adult content in Second Life in a way that is either discriminatory or which reduces it.
- LL recognises it is one of the fabric of Second Life and has a robust creator community and is a vibrant and meaningful part of people’s lives.
- While specifics could not be given, there are initiatives LL is developing which will hopefully demonstrate the above.
- Oberwolf Linden added that while there are no plans to curtail adult content and activities in Second Life – and recognising that Adult activities are as much a part of the virtual world as the physical world – in order to comply with app store requirements, etc., there is the aforementioned need to “hide” it from SL Mobile.
- Community Exhibition: a question as to how the Community Exhibition is being managed, how communities are chose and how they can participate.
- Pretty much answered by this official blog post and this application form.
- What is going to be done to the in-world content creation tools, as opposed to the emphasis on using external tools?
- Answered in terms of the drive to open SL to more industry standards [e.g. the glTF 2.0 specification, which is governing he graphics and content creation improvements already in progress] and make it easier for content creators from outside SL to engage with the platform and bring content and experiences to the platform, thus helping to grow it and the economy and benefit everyone.
- There is a desire to streamline the content creation process, make it more predictable and enable more of the collaborative spirit of content creation and the use of the in-world tools [e.g. glTF scene import / export with some manipulation of nodes using the in-world tools – see my CCUG summaries for more].
- Final word from Oberwolf:
- Continue to support the platform.
- Be mindful of the fact that LL are trying to do the best they can for the platform and the users.
- Again asked for understanding that as SL Mobile reaches a wider audience, they will find many things “broken” [or missing], and rather than complaining about the broken aspect, help improve it by filing bug reposts and offering feedback on improvements, etc.
- Requested all residents help grow SL by encouraging people to try it and get involved – not for financial reasons on LL’s part, but to help grow the use base and thus further strengthen the platform.
Inara Pey: Living in a Modemworld 