Month: June 2023

• This is a summary, not a full transcript, and the focus is on those questions which offer insight into the world of the Marketing Team.
• Timestamps are included against the topics discussed, so that those who wish can listen to the responses in full.

A Little Background

Brett Linden

• As VP of marketing, Brett Linden manages the team responsible for developing media campaigns and strategic content partnerships for Second Life.
• Has more then 2 decades of marketing and journalism experience, and has been at the Lab for 16 years.
• In the past decade, he has produced numerous virtual and “mixed reality” events and panels on various academic topics with an emphasis on legitimising and better surfacing the many cultures and communities within virtual environments.
• From Rolling Stone to Billboard, Brett has also written for major publications and managed multimedia initiatives for Amazon.com and RealNetworks. As a co-founding editor at Billboard.com, he interviewed Stevie Wonder, David Bowie, Peter Gabriel, Shania Twain, and Bjork.
• Was drawn to Second Life after trying the platform during its first burst of media exposure in 2006 – specifically trying to find the CNN and Reuters bureaux that were active in SL at that time.
• At the same time, he received a grant from the McCormick Foundation to run the Virtual Journalism Summit, some of which took place in-world, allowing him to meet Philip Rosedale.
• He moved from being a resident to being a Linden in 2007.
• He is as fascinated and intrigued – and sometimes frustrated – but always illuminated by the platform, the residents, the diversity of use and creativity, etc., today, as he was when he started.

StyFy Linden

• Has been with Linden Lab for 18 months.
• Has a broad background in marketing, including client marketing, retail marketing and running marketing agencies, and has also working within some major technology companies.
• States that throughout his career, he’s never had as much fun as he is having at Linden Lab.

Marketing and SL20B

[Video: 3:19-5:01]

• StyFy Linden:
  • The marketing for SL20B  has been similar to previous years, but with a broader and deeper scope.
  • A lot has been going on with the media and through social media.
  • A lot more has been done with the press in particular to mark the 20th anniversary.

The Media’s Tone Towards SL Following 2022’s “Metaverse” Hype

[Video: 5:09-6:48]

• StyFy Linden:
  • It has benefitted SL. In 2022,there were some major corporations sucking up a lot of the media’s interest in  the “metaverse”.
  • However, the fact that SL has hit 20 years of open public access at a time when others have really been “flash in the pan” announcements around the “metaverse”, allowing SL to be positioned at the “gold standard” of virtual worlds.
  • Believes this is being reflected in the kind of press coverage the platform has recently received, and the fact that LL is no longer one “of six” calls reporters might make when writing about virtual worlds – they are the “only” call being made.

Keeping The Perception of SL Fresh

[Video: 6:58-8:56]

• Brett Linden:
  • Work is understand to update / refresh the SL web properties; thew Destination Guide has received a major refresh, with more work to come [see below].
  • Notes that the community within Second Life does a lot to help keep SL fresh through content creation, building destinations and experiences, etc., and with their on photography.
  • The Marketing Team as a whole is expanding with new talent.
  • All of this is feeding back into the overall media / press interest in Second Life.
  • Believes that SL Mobile, once available, will offer further interest in SL.
• StyFy Linden:
  • Time has been put into formalising they way in which feedback can be obtained from existing and new Second life users and communities within SL, and even potential SL users.
  • This is being used to help drive some of the ideas the Marketing Team and others within LL have in moving the platform forward, developing new initiatives, etc.

Current Marketing Activities Outside of SL20B

[Video: 8:58-11:36]

• StyFy Linden:
  • Marketing is being looked at more broadly; not just as a pipeline to draw new users into Second life, but also how it can be used to assist users during their journey through Second Life: how can Marketing help new users get acclimated to SL; how can Marketing help users to connect with one another; etc.
  • So the thinking is not longer siloed towards a single goal, but more broadly spread to benefit both the platform and users as a whole.
• Brett Linden:
  • People thinking of Marketing in terms of acquisition only, but the involvement can be broader, as demonstrated with the new Welcome Hub, in which Marketing have played a significant role in helping define how they can help users beyond the pure acquisition stage of their experience with SL.
  • Very much sees helping to get users to “stick” with Second Life, from having a very good, comfortable initial exposure to the platform onwards, is something in which Marketing can offer considerable expertise.

Common Misconceptions About the SL Marketing Team

[Video: 11:41-14:23]

• Brett Linden:
  • Can understand why there are misconceptions, as users are not sitting side-by-side with the Marketing team.
  • Many misconceptions tend to be the result of people’s focus. For example, if they see SL paid ads, they assume the Marketing Team only does paid ads.
  • The overall strategy is far broader – wrapping into the Public Relations (including the use of an external company), the involvement in user acquisition and retention, etc.
  • Would also point out that Marketing is only one team within SL. They work extremely closely with Product and Product operations in particular, but this is sometimes misconstrued by users as to which team is doing what; sometimes Marketing will be operating in support of initiatives led by the other teams, sometimes they will actually be leading initiatives which may be perceived as being run by other teams.
• StyFy Linden:
  • Would say the biggest misconception about Marketing is that “all” they do is form pipeline to acquire new users through mechanisms like paid ads, etc.
  • Marketing touches on many parts of Second life and LL in many different ways, from providing imput through to actively providing solutions for given requirements, and involved across the “entire resident journey”.

LL’s Social Media Strategy

[Video: 14:30-18:37]

• Strawberry Linden (as Social Media Manager at LL):
  • Main goal is to feature as much of the community as possible.
  • Spreading SL’s presence to multiple social media platforms, as has been the case with TikTok.
• StyFy Linden:
  • Looking to add depth to SL’s current social media presence, particularly where new channels are opening up (as with TikTok, seen as particularly important due to the broadness of its user base).
• Brett Linden:
  • Feels that the social media strategy is an excellent means to celebrate and promotion what the Second Life user community is doing.
  • Appreciates the ways in which users themselves are using social media to tell their own stories vis Second Life.
  • In terms of the future, feels video will play more of an important role for SL, giving the growth of platforms like TikTok and Kik.

User Created Content and Its Use in Marketing Campaigns

[Video: 18:45-21:06]

• StyFy Linden:
  • User created content is one of the biggest opportunities Market has thanks to its richness.
  • Sees the content available within SL as a cornerstone of those aspects of Marketing’s work geared towards user acquisition.
  • Would like to have specific feedback / ideas from the community on what Marketing can do to leverage the diversity of content within Second Life to help bring users into the platform / help communities within SL attract new users from beyond the platform.
• Brett Linden:
  • There is a general e-mail address at the Lab which is monitored by Marketing and others to which users can submit general feedback and ideas [not feature request or bug reports – please use the Jira for those!] – feedback-at-lindenlab.com.
  • Would emphasise that the community is “at the core and heart of all that we do”.

The New Welcome / Community Hub: Goal and Continuing Development

[Video: 21:08-24:11]

[Note: this is in reference to the Welcome Hub launched alongside the Motown Experience – see: Linden Lab and Motown: a new approach to user on-boarding in Second Life]

• Brett Linden:
  • The new hub is very much a “version 1” of the concept. As such it is an experiment, and the Lab is learning from it. As such it will be improved and iterated upon.
  • It particularly presents an opportunity to observe new users throughout their on-boarding to the platform and through their initial exposure to the world and other users, and take lessons from what is seen over time.
  • The work is critically important to the overall idea of bringing people into SL and to helping them engage with the platform and thus help ensure its continued longevity.
  • Notes that there are already community gateways which tackle the new user experience, and sees the Welcome Hub idea as augmenting the work they do.
  • In terms of strategy, the use of mentors and leaders within the Hub environment is as important as the environment itself, given they provide a friendly, helpful face to SL as new users come it.
• StyFy Linden:
  • Would note that a lot of what is available within the Hub’s regions really flowed out from talking with incoming users about their experience, why / how they are encouraged to stay engaged with SL, who helped them and how, etc.

Brand and Entertainment Partnerships

[Video: 24:12-26:23]

• Styfy Linden:
  • As with the press, SL was one of a number of “metaverse” platforms brands were looking to engage with in 2022. Now SL is part of a “much, much shorter list” of platforms brands are interested in.
  • This means SL is attracting a lot of interest; however, LL do not engage with entities simply for the same of creating a partnership; the focus is on partnerships that will add to Second Life and the in-world experience of users.
  • Because of this, it is likely there will be more partnerships similar to Motown – which itself will be expanded upon – in the future.

The Destination Guide

[Video: 26:30-30:12]

• The Destination Guide was initiated by Brett Linden as one of his first projects as a Linden.
• At the time, there wasn’t a significant means to easily highlight places within SL.
• It was initially called Showcase, and tended to grow from there, including being re-christened Destination Guide.
• It has recently been given a complete refresh in terms of bot the look and the functionality [see: Looking at the Second Life Destination Guide facelift]
• Elements of the refresh – such as the additional of search capabilities on the web version – are the direct result of feedback from users on the older Destination Guide look.
• Future updates will include “population counts” (i.e. avatars actually within a location); the ability to bookmark / favourite locations, etc.
• The architecture for the Destination Guide is actually complex: the version in the viewer isn’t simply the web version presented through the viewer, it is its own entity, driven by the same engine, and DG data touches on things like the official viewer message of the day, the map system, etc.
• No timeline on when additional features will be surfaced, but the Destination Guide is “on our roadmap for the next 6 months, let’s say”.

Strategies for Attracting New Users and Content Creators / Artists

[Video: 33:33-34:55]

• StyFy Linden:
  • Content creation is such a core part of SL, that considering how to engage with the next generation of content creators and bring them in to SL is very much part of the Marketing focus.
  • Some of the ideas being discussed are “in-world apprenticeships” and partnerships with colleges and universities to help guide students into SL [through, presumably, art and content creation].
  • Hopefully more of these ideas will be fleshed out throughout the rest of 2023.

SL Demographics

[Video: 34:58-36:49]

• StyFy Linden:
  • Great for 30+ age range. The challenge is 18-29-year-olds.
  • Feels that reaching this 18-29 demographic is not unique to SL; virtual worlds in general appear to have the same problem.
  • Time has been spent exploring the challenges involved in reaching this demographic and in looking at the channels through which they can be reached (e.g. TikTok).
  • There is also a working group “within SL” focus on the subject of growing the user base.

SL in 10 Years

[Video: 36:54-39:30]

• Brett Linden:
  • Hopes the platform continues to innovate and expand.
  • Would love the see SL continue to foster the development and evolution of on-line cultures whilst also scaling to greater numbers of concurrent users and also becoming more broadly available through Mobile.
  • Most of all hopes SL will continue to be known as a welcoming, creative space that is really honouring and respectful of freedom of expression and people’s individuality.
• StyFy Linden:
  • The power of SL is its users and their creativity, and hopes that remains the cornerstone of what the platform is.
  • Hope people engage with the platform and how LL will engage with them will obviously change as technology changes, but does not believe what SL is known for is going to change.

• It is not a full transcript of questions and responses, but is intended as a summary. Timestamps are included against the topics discussed, so that those who wish can listen to the responses in full.

A Little Background

Brad Oberwager

[Video: 0:00-6:45]

Brad Oberwager is one of the three investors who acquired Linden Lab in 2020, together with J. Randall (Randy) Waterfield and Raj Date. Since the acquisition closed, he has been very hands-on at Linden Lab, working alongside members of the management team, and he has also brought-in long-time business associate Cammy Bergren as the company’s Chief of Staff.

His biography, as supplied by the Lab reads as follows:

Brad Oberwager has spent his entire career in technology and consumer focused companies as an entrepreneur and board member.

Currently, he sits on the board of two public companies, Asure Software (NASDAQ: ASUR) and Better World (NASDAQ: BWACU). He is the chairman of two companies he founded, Jyve and Sundia and is also on the board of TEGSCO (aka AutoReturn). He owned Bare Snacks, acquired by PepsiCo in 2018.

Brad was Vice-chair of YPO International, a global organization of 25,000 CEOs [where he met and became friends with J. Randall Waterfield, another of the Lab’s owners / board member].

Brad received his BS from Georgetown University, his MBA from the Wharton School and lives in San Francisco.

Philip Rosedale

Philip Rosedale earned a Bachelor of Science degree in physics and computer science from the University of California, San Diego, and in 1985 he created a video conferencing product called “FreeVue”, which was ultimately purchased by Real Networks, for whom he went to work, rising to the positions vice president and chief technology officer.

Departing Real Networks at the end of the 1990s, he founded Linden Research Inc (functioning as Linden Lab), and commenced work on trying to develop both the hardware and software for an immersive virtual reality system. The company switched to focusing on the software – which it called LindenWorld -, launching it as a publicly-accessible platform under the name Second Life in 2003. As founder and CEO, Rosedale steered the company through until 2008, when he stepped back from the role of CEO to become chair of the board of directors.

In 2009, he founded LoveMachine Inc., with  Ryan Downe, which later evolved into Coffer and Power (2011), with Rosedale briefly returning to Linden Lab in 2010 as interim CEO. After two years developing a mobile application called Workclub that helped bring contractors and those seeking them together, he and Downe announced Coffee & Power would become a new company, High Fidelity Inc. (2013), focused on building a fully decentralised virtual reality environments, and the required supporting applications / services. In 2019, High Fidelity ceased working on this platform to focus on one of the key supporting services: spatial audio, with their product subsequently being licensed by a number of companies.

In 2021, High Fidelity invested in Linden Research, brining in both staff and patents that might be used with the platform, and while High Fidelity still very much operates as an independent entity, Rosedale took the part-time position of Strategic Advisor to Linden Lab.

Questions Specific to Brad Oberwager

2.5 Years On From Acquiring LL, How Does He Feel Things Are Going?

[Video: 6:50-11:31]

• While he acquired Linden Research, has come to realise he doesn’t “own” Second Life; the users and the staff at the Lab “own” Second Life, and he feels he is along for the ride.
• Has been so welcomed by the user base and the staff at the Lab over 2.5 years, doesn’t think of it as owning and running a company so much as having a moral imperative to ensure Second Life continues for the next 20 years.
• As such sees the platform as less of a business in the fullest sense of the word, but as something which must be allowed to continue.
• Looking at the metrics, feels that the platform is very stable overall (although there has been a small decline in active users).
• Feels the most complicated issue with Second Life is, given its size and overall cost to maintain and run and the limited resources LL necessarily has, how to balance the focus / expenditure between growing the platform’s capabilities to the benefit of its current active user base and bringing-in new users and engaging them in the platform to keep things vibrant and fresh. As such, his major worry regarding SL and his management of the company is – in his words – “don’t eff it up!”

Has It Been Easy / Hard to Add His Own Imprint to the Platform?

[Video: 14:48-17:43]

• Has never intended or tried to imprint himself on SL. Rather, he has always seen his goal as being “releasing the Lindens to do what they love to make Second Life the best for the community”, and to provide the resources required in order for this to happen.
• Notes that this is not entirely altruistic: Linden Lab / Second Life both have a business value, and SL is not inexpensive to run. However, believes that this approach is the best path by which to make Second Life more valuable as a business.
• Feels that his acquisition of Linden Lab [with J. Randal Waterfield] amounted to a fundamental shift in the company from one being run by venture capitalists [where ROI might be a guiding factor], to a partnership in which a longer-term view could be taken, including the splitting-off of business elements [e.g. Tilia] to allow the available resources to freed-up to focus on the platform.
• He hopes this last point has been understood and welcomed by users.

What is the Status Re: a New CEO?

[Video: 17:56-21:24]

• Traditionally, the role of the CEO is to take care of the general running of an organisation – taking ultimate responsibility for things like allocating resources, budgets, setting the culture and tone for the business, etc., on the basis of input from the executive level managers, and to manage the Board from the bottom-up, whilst the Chair of the board manages the latter from the top down.
• Insofar as Second Life is concerned, these duties / responsibilities are being managed by a team of individuals called, internally, TOOSL [“too-sol” – The Office Of Second Life, comprising Brett Linden, Grumpity Linden, Mojo Linden and Patch Linden in their various Vice President roles].
• Brad himself is Executive Chairman, meaning he is hands-on involved in running Linden Research as a company, as well as managing the board [comprising himself, J. Randal Waterfield and Raj Date].
• As Executive Chair, Brad has the TOOSL team reporting into him – a dynamic which works, and which negates the need for a “Second Life CEO”, while his position as hands-on Executive Chair for the company means he is a kind of de facto corporate CEO without actually taking the title.
• Given this structure, there are no plans to hire-in a CEO,, but the roles performed by a “traditional” CEO are being performed.

As An Investor, What Does He Value Most About SL?

[Video: 1:17:38-1:20:36]

• Asks that people remember that he doesn’t look at Second Life primarily as a investor.
• However, as an investor, particularly values the consistency of the experience and the loyalty of the users, both of which mark SL as a good business, and the fact he can achieve all his goals as an investor through his active involvement in managing and running the Lab (and by extension, Second Life).

Tilia Update

[Video: 24:09-28:11]

• Believes questions on Tilia are born of two things: positive curiosity and unfounded fears.
• The fears are based on the idea that having the Lab focus on “non-SL” activities takes away resources from SL. While not commenting on situations prior to his arrival, he would note that Second Life cannot exist without Tilia, because of its management of the financial elements involved within the platform – the ability to purchase virtual goods, to exchange physical world currencies [“fiat money”, to use the technical term] and Linden Dollars and back again, etc.
• As such, Tilia is not some spin-off project within the Lab. Rather, it enables Linden Lab to adhere to a complicated series of state, federal and international financial requirements and regulations. If it did not exist, LL would have to go out and obtain the services Tilia provides – and be locked into the structure of those services without any ownership of them.
• However, as Linden Lab owns Tilia, it presents added security to Second Life [as the company maintains control of the services] whilst allowing LL to market the services Tilia provides to other interested parties. This has two additional benefits:
  • It allows Tilia to potentially become self-supporting as a business entity, reducing the financial support coming from it via Second Life.
  • It potentially allows Tilia to offer Linden Lab (and Second Life) added resources / an inward revenue flow.
• As such, any success for Tilia reflects well on Second Life.

Questions Specific to Philip Rosedale

What Inspired Him to create Second Life?

[Video: 3:04-6:43]

• In the late 1990s attempted to develop The Rig a virtual reality system, working with Andrew (now Leviathan, since his return to LL from High Fidelity) Linden.
• Nine months into this work, the team started developing the virtual world itself – at that time intended to be a physics simulation of an enormous world, rather than an avatar-based world. A place where the laws of physics could be tested an constructs made.
• As people within the company started using the software and getting caught up within it, the focus shifted to developing the virtual world itself and presenting it as an immersive experience.
• [As many know, that led to the development of LindenWorld, and copies of a 2001 video of that environment, populated by “Primitars” (as they were built from the world’s primitives) can still be found on You Tube.]

• Never thought the platform would still be going 20 years on, let alone the rich diversity of activities and content, and is “deeply, deeply happy” with the way the platform has flourished and adopted / adapted by users.

What Worries  / Excites Him Most for the Future of SL?

[Video: 11:33-14:36]

• Is excited about the fact that – even without the need for headsets – SL is seen as being a leader within the field, and feels that it is a fundamental demonstration of how people can positively spend time within virtual environments – “the metaverse” (alongside the few other multi-person virtual worlds that have managed to survive), and how a virtual world can both positively empower and bring people from all backgrounds together.
• Is also concerned that the increasing AI toolset that is gaining greater use, coupled with the spread of misinformation, could, if mis-applied to virtual worlds, lead to things going “horribly wrong” if there are a lot of people using those virtual spaces.
• As such, has spent much of his time of late trying to articulate the positive strengths of SL, and how they could be positive influence within social media, digital currencies, etc.

What is His Role at Linden Lab / Within Second Life?

[Video: 21:28-23:59]

• Notes that the relationship between Second Life and Linden Lab is unusually dynamic, as the growth of each informs the other.
• Due to the multiple inputs to and uses of the platform, it doesn’t lend itself to the “traditional” form of reactive, product-led, top-down management, and so support’s Brad’s comment vis the role of CEO.
• His own role is that of Second Life Strategic Advisor, being available to help consult on areas where his opinion / expertise is concerned. However, notes that as he is busy on multiple fronts, his direct involvement in Second Life’s development takes the form of “a little of my time and a lot of my love.”

Continue reading “SL20B Lab Gab: Brad Oberwager and Philip Rosedale – summary notes + video” →