Category: SL User Group Meetings

The following notes are taken from the Content Creation User Group meeting, held on  Thursday, July 27th, 2017 at 13:00 SLT at the the Hippotropolis Camp Fire Circle. The meeting is chaired by Vir Linden, and agenda notes, etc, are usually available on the Content Creation User Group wiki page.

Medhue Simoni live steamed the meeting to You Tube, and his video is embedded at the end of this article. These notes present the meeting in terms of topics discussed, rather than a chronological breakdown of the meeting, so the provided time stamps may appear to be out of sequence in places. All time stamps are provided as links which will open the video in a separate browser tab, allowing the discussion to be heard in full.

Note: Due to the monthly internal meeting at LL and Vir’s time on vacation, there will only be two CCUG meetings in August: Thursday, August 10th and Thursday, August 31st. Details will be posted on the wiki page.

Bakes On Mesh

Project Summary

Extending the current avatar baking service to allow wearable textures (skins, tattoos, clothing) to be applied directly to mesh bodies as well as system avatars. This involves server-side changes, including updating the baking service to support 1024×1024 textures. This may lead to a reduction in the complexity of mesh avatar bodies and heads.

Recent Progress

[1:31-2:01] The project is reaching a point where internal testing at the Lab can begin, allowing the impact of the text increase to be assessed. If this proves successful, the work will start the march towards more general visibility (e.g. availability of a project viewer, probable Aditi testing, etc).

Animated Objects

Project Summary

The goal of this project is to provide a means of animating rigged mesh objects using the avatar skeleton, in whole or in part, to provide things like independently moveable pets / creatures, and animated scenery features via scripted animation.

• At this point in time, this is not about adding fully functional, avatar-like non-player characters (NPCs) to Second Life
• Animated objects will not (initially):
  • Have an avatar shape associated with them
  • Make use of an avatar-like inventory (although individual parts can contain their own inventory such as animations and scripts)
  • Make use of the server-side locomotion graph for walking, etc., and so will not use an AO
  • Use the avatar baking service
  • Be adjustable using the avatar shape sliders
• The project may be extended in the future.
• It will involve both back-end and viewer-side changes, likely to encompass new LSL commands to trigger and stop animations (held in the object’s contents)
• It will most likely include a new flag added to an existing rigged object type in order for the object to be given its own skeleton.

Recent Progress

[2:04-2:20] The focus has remained on getting wire frames and right-click selections to work correctly ((e.g. when you right-click on a mesh, the object stops moving, the correct menu is displayed and the mesh is shown as a selected wire frame). Testing region crossings with animated objects has also started.

[2:21-3:26 and 4:19-4:47] Sitting avatars to animated objects: this has been part of a wider discussion on attaching avatars to animated objects and vice-versa. Vir’s view is that there is no restriction on avatars sitting on animated objects, however, the catch is that the sit point isn’t going to be animated – if it is, and as there is no relationship between the animated object’s skeletal locomotion and the avatar’s locomotion, the two will get out of sync. One suggestion for dealing with this is BUG-100864 “A means of visually rigging a sitter to an animesh skeleton bone”, and Vir indicated that the Lab is thinking along those lines, but it’s unlikely to be in the initial project viewer, when that appears.

[3:33-3:57] Animated objects as avatar attachments: unless there is an unforeseen issue, Vir is hopeful this will be possible. However, it is still awaiting work.

[5:19-5:57] Physics for animated objects: should work the same way as for non-animated objects, although this has yet to be tested.

[7:10-8:43] Scaling animated objects: this will not initially be possible using the avatar shape sliders, as animated objects will not initially have any notion of the avatar shape. However, it will likely be possible as a result of follow-on updates to the initial work.

What Vir is hoping to achieve is a method for reliably scaling an object’s skeleton based on the object’s own scale. That is: you could have three different sizes of an object (baby bear, mama bear and papa bear, say), and the skeleton will scale to whichever model is applied to it, rather than having the mesh default to the size of the skeleton (as is currently the case), which is currently defined by the joint positions.

[8:48-12:33] Shapes and Skeletons: the reason for no body shape support at present is that it makes animated mesh a much more extensive project, requiring the objects have a Current Outfit Folder, which requires them to have a dedicated, avatar-style inventory,  make use of the baking service, and so on. All of this makes for a far more complicated, drawn-out project where the Lab would prefer to develop capabilities incrementally, starting with the provision of the avatar skeleton and then building from there.

This is seen as preferable to trying to incorporate everything people want to see – or believe is required – at a first pass, driving out development over a much longer period and risk developing a feature set the wider creative community in SL doesn’t want. Developing incrementally means features can be built upon and the project as a whole iterated, with deliverables presented in much shorter time frames.

[13:49-15:10] Land impact:  this remains a concern for several reasons (too high, and it could stymie the use of animated objects, too low and it could thump performance for the viewer / simulator). Right now, the Lab has no clear idea of how LI will be calculated for animated objects, and Vir re-states that any LI values provided in the project viewer will be place holders which will be refined as testing and creator feedback  gives more information on what the calculations should be.

[16:45-18:04] LI and scaling: concern was raised that if an animated object does not affect the bounding box, but could be scaled via animation, it could lead to the LI being game. Vir pointed out that scaling via animation is something of a hack, and for scaling with animated mesh, he is referring to the scale of the skeleton being determined by the scale of the model (which would effectively be a “static” scale), rather than having something dynamic. As such, the bounding box should reflect the object size and thus correctly influence LI calculations.

[20:14-24:41] Rigging to attachment Points: rigging to attachment points is being seen by some as the ideal means of animating attachments (e.g. twirling a gun in your hand), due to accuracy involved. Vir’s view is that problems people have encountered in uploading items rigged to attachment points is more of a bug with the LL viewer, and so the behaviour will be allowed (with the possible exception of the newer Bento bones attachment points); there is. however the concern that the ability might lead to attachment points being used as additional free-floating bones.

[37:50-39:36] Animated objects in games: could they be used for interactive elements in games, such as walls which bend when walked into, items which might interact with one another / players, traps which could physically react to an avatar (something wrapping around an avatar, for example). Short answer: yes and no. Yes, these are various interactions that are possible: trees swaying in the breeze, animals and other creature roaming and responding to avatars. No, in that animated objects will not initially have their own physics, so wrapping around an avatar, being used as some kind of clothing, etc.

[39:39-41:58] Will there be limits places on the number of animated objects in a region: there will be limits, but what these will be cannot really be determined until testing can be performed and the Lab can get better metrics on likely performance impacts animated objects have. This could also feed into how the limits are set (e.g. through the LI applied to animated objects, or limiting the number of animated objects which can be attached to an avatar or which can follow an avatar, etc), all of which might be used individually or in some combination(s) depending on the objects in question. Impact viewer-side could also be limited by having attached animated objects impact the avatar’s rendering cost.

[42:00-42:21] Imposters are also likely to be extended to apply to animated objects, although work hasn’t started on this a yet.

Other Items

[0:44-1:21] Bento wiki information: It was mentioned in a previous meeting that some of the Bento wiki content was broken – links weren’t working expected downloads weren’t available. This should now all be fixed.

[25:04-36:15] Development kits for the default mesh avatars: In short, nothing planned on the Lab’s part at present, although due note was taken that there could be potential for such kits and the provision of better starter content for new users to help them in their understanding of what might be possible in SL with content creation.

The idea behind the initial question being to help give those new to mesh content creation the means to better understand what can / cannot be done with mesh in-world, get to grips with some basics of mesh development and modelling. This quickly expanded into discussions on “good” and “bad” content, broadening the availability of of content guides / best practices through to more formalised attempts at education those coming into mesh content creation An argument against this is that it could lead to misunderstands and the creation of poor content in SL, with the suggestion that more extensive best practices guidelines would be better.

[43:20-49:29] Why can’t animators replace default facial expressions in the same way they can replace walk animations? Because AOs affecting walks, sits, etc., all interact with the server-side locomotion graph which has a notion / manages these things. Facial expressions, etc., are not recognised by the locomotion graph, but are enacted viewer-side and the results effectively “passed through” the simulator (which is aware an animation – smile, frown, whatever – is being played, just not what the animation is actually doing).  There is the potential to change this by extending the animation system, but outside of supplemental animation, there is no current commitment to doing this at present.

This discussion extends out into a discussion of the system avatar morph capability and sliders / limitations, which runs through until 53:11.

[54:13-1:03:00] Adjustable walk / run speeds: the ability to adjust / scale walk and run speeds to be in accordance with the size of an avatar, etc., has been a common request (see: feature requests BUG-7006 and SVC-7824 for example). Vir points out that currently, the speeds are set simulator-side and that adjusting them of any on-the-fly changes could be problematic as it involves an array of simulator and viewer changes. As such, scripted capabilities which adjust the viewer-side animation speeds might be an easier solution (Tapple Gao already supplies an AO for avatar creators which allows for some degree of speed control in their products, but something that is more generally usable is seen as ideal).

 

The following notes are taken from the Content Creation User Group meeting, held on  Thursday, July 20th, 2017 at 13:00 SLT at the the Hippotropolis Camp Fire Circle. The meeting is chaired by Vir Linden, and agenda notes, etc, are usually available on the Content Creation User Group wiki page.

Medhue Simoni live steamed the meeting to You Tube, and his video is embedded at the end of this article. These notes present the meeting in terms of topics discussed, rather than a chronological breakdown of the meeting, so the provided time stamps may appear to be out of sequence in places. All time stamps are provided as links which will open the video in a separate browser tab, allowing the discussion to be heard in full.

Animated Mesh

Project Summary

The goal of this project is to provide a means of animating rigged mesh objects using the avatar skeleton, in whole or in part, to provide things like independently moveable pets / creatures, and animated scenery features via scripted animation.

• At this point in time, this is not about adding fully functional, avatar-like non-player characters (NPCs) to Second Life
• Animated objects will not (initially):
  • Have an avatar shape associated with them
  • Make use of an avatar-like inventory (although individual parts can contain their own inventory such as animations and scripts)
  • Make use of the server-side locomotion graph for walking, etc., and so will not use an AO
  • Use the avatar baking service
• The project may be extended in the future.
• It will involve both back-end and viewer-side changes, likely to encompass new LSL commands to trigger and stop animations (held in the object’s contents)
• It will most likely include a new flag added to an existing rigged object type in order for the object to be given its own skeleton.

Current Status

[3:33- 4:29] Work is focused on getting right-click selections and wire frames to work correctly (e.g. when you right-click on a mesh, the object stops moving, the correct menu is displayed and the mesh is shown as a selected wire frame. All of this seems to be working well, and while Vir is still not in a position to give a time frame estimate of when a project viewer will appear, his feeling is that there are no major obstacles sitting in the way.

[13:24-16:54] Performance impact assessment: The work isn’t sufficiently advanced to carry out any kind of assessment on the impact multiple animated objects may have on simulator and viewer performance. Animated objects should not have as significant a cost as avatars tend to have, but it could get expensive with multiple rigged vertices being animated in a single location.

Vir’s view is that the relevant test will likely be how many joints are actively animated and rigged to, rather than just how many bones are in the scene, given that idle bones aren’t really going to impact anything. Until sress tests can be held and the figures refined, any cost / impact values assigned in a project viewer will be place holders, subject to change.

[43:50-58:00] Attaching animated objects to avatars / rigging prims or non-rigged mesh to skeleton bones:  A discussion encompassing BUG-134018 and attaching animated objects to avatars. Vir sees the problem with the latter as being primarily a performance question / costing issue (large numbers of objects with potentially no land impact be which influence performance).

Attaching avatars to animated objects (outside of sitting on them, as is done with vehicles, etc., currently) is seen as more complicated because the animated object is being controlled by a viewer-side skeleton about which the simulator has no notion, and so ideas of attachment points become vague, and questions open up on how things are tracked by the simulator, given there is no notion of agents associated with animated objects. This discussion also encompasses issues of attaching avatars to bones within animated objects, raising questions of parenting, animation synchronisation etc.

Bakes on Mesh

Project Summary

Extending the current avatar baking service to allow wearable textures (skins, tattoos, clothing) to be applied directly to mesh bodies as well as system avatars. This involves server-side changes, including updating the baking service to support 1024×1024 textures. This may lead to a reduction in the complexity of mesh avatar bodies and heads.

Current Status

[4:32-4:39] Anchor Linden has been working on other projects recently, but the hope is he’ll be back working on bakes on mesh soon.

[5:40-6:19] Bakes on mesh should allow alphas / transparent textures to be used as they are with the system avatar at present: if an alpha / transparent channel is in a bake, it will place “holes” in the mesh just as they can be used to blank parts of the system avatar. However, once the bakes on mesh project has progressed far enough, this will requiring testing to confirm.

[58:27-58:48] There is no estimate on when a project viewer, etc., for bakes on mesh might appear.

Other Items

Increasing the Build / Mesh Import Size

[6:24-12:18] It was asked if the current upper limit imported objects could be increased so that very large items such as region-sized landscape / terrain models could be imported with having to break them into smaller segments.

There are currently no plans to make any increase in the size of prims / single mesh imports. It’s also unclear how massive objects might be affected by land impact. The latter include things like the overall area of the object, the amount of screen space it might occupy based on its dimensions, etc; so having one large piece of terrain could have an exponentially larger land impact than  using a number of smaller sized pieces to achieve the same result. Additional concerns include the increased risk of encroachment issues, etc., for very large objects.

JIRA feature requests outlining why an increase might be useful and the kind of use cases it could meet are invited.

Maya .ANIM Exporter

[17:39-18:28] Aura Linden continues to work on the .ANIM exporter for Maya (which she has been developing in her own time), and which she plans to make available as a open-source offering. There are also the pre-Bento (translations on mPelvis only) and post-Bento (translations on all bones) .BVH exporters available on the Bento testing page of the wiki.

In Brief

• [18:59-19:42] Various requests were put forward to extend the mesh object physics types which can be specified at upload (e.g. cube, basic havok presets, etc.). Vir requested a JIRA be raised so it could be noted and as / if / when time allows, pain point could be looked at and perhaps improvements / changes to the uploader made.
  • [20:40-22:54] Discussion about a specific issue in uploading a model cat using the official viewer (which crashes) and Firestorm (which manages the upload).
• [25:13-29:26] Discussion (primarily text) on dynamic mirrors STORM-2055 and water as a reflective surface.
• [31:35-34:18] Discussion (primarily text) about BUG-134006 “Viewer code is not aligned to server code when calculating physics shape for thin objects”. This has been accepted by the Lab, but as it is seen as a conflict between the viewer and the server, no decision has been made on whether it should be a server-side or viewer fix. Firestorm have adopted a viewer-side fix, which will appear in the next release. The root of the problem appears to be changes made in the physics costings as a result of mesh being introduced. This is followed by a further conversation on the physics uploader, “custom pivot points, and issues through to 42:14.

The following notes are taken from the Content Creation User Group meeting, held on  Thursday, July 13th, 2017 at 13:00 SLT at the the Hippotropolis Camp Fire Circle. The meeting is chaired by Vir Linden, and agenda notes, etc, are usually available on the Content Creation User Group wiki page.

Audio extracts are provided where relevant. Note that this article is organised (as far as possible) by topic, and does not necessarily reflect the chronological order in which items were discussed. Medhue Simoni live steamed the meeting to You Tube, and his video is embedded at the end of this article. Time stamps in the text refer to that recording, and will open the video at the relevant point in a separate browser tab for ease of reference.

Note that the region crashed at around 56 minutes into the meeting.

Animated Objects

Project Summary

The goal of this project is to provide a means of animating rigged mesh objects using the avatar skeleton, in whole or in part, to provide things like independently moveable pets / creatures, and animated scenery features via scripted animation.

• At this point in time, this is not about adding fully functional, avatar-like non-player characters (NPCs) to Second Life
• Animated objects will not (initially):
  • Have an avatar shape associated with them
  • Make use of an avatar-like inventory (although individual parts can contain their own inventory such as animations and scripts)
  • Make use of the server-side locomotion graph for walking, etc., and so will not use an AO
  • Use the avatar baking service
• The project may be extended in the future.
• It will involve both back-end and viewer-side changes, likely to encompass new LSL commands to trigger and stop animations (held in the object’s contents)
• It will most likely include a new flag added to an existing rigged object type in order for the object to be given its own skeleton.

Recent Progress

• [1:50] The issue with current viewers crashing when used on a region where the server-side support for animated mesh has been enabled (due to the viewer receiving unrecognised messages from the simulator) appears to have been resolved.
• Vir is working on ways to get a good match between the object position in-world and the skeleton position, and this will likely be the subject of a future meeting discussion.
• [6:30] As animated objects are set using a flag, any that are modifiable will be switchable as animated or not by users.
• [17:20] There currently isn’t any documentation on animated objects, but hopefully by the time the project viewer appears, information will be made available on what animated objects can do, how they can be used, etc., together with some test files.
• [29:16] There is still no date on when a project viewer is liable to appear.
• [52:58] A reminder that the current project isn’t intended to solve for all potential uses of animated mesh; things like “full” NPCs utilising their own avatar-like inventory for bakes, etc., support of attachment points for non-rigged objects, etc, are seen as more ambitious, and thus follow-ons.

Attaching Avatars and Animated Objects To One Another

[9:34 and 1:02:12] This follows on from the last meeting. No decision has been made on whether or not it will be implemented as an initial part of the animated mesh project, as it involves several complications (such as defining some kind of skeletal hierarchy to differentiate between avatar skeleton and animated object skeleton). Vir’s thinking is perhaps to push to get a project viewer out without any such capability, and use that as a means to generate feedback on what people would like to see and how they think it might work.

Bakes on Mesh

Project Summary

Extending the current avatar baking service to allow wearable textures (skins, tattoos, clothing) to be applied directly to mesh bodies as well as system avatars. This involves server-side changes, including updating the baking service to support 1024×1024 textures. This may lead to a reduction in the complexity of mesh avatar bodies and heads.

Recent Progress

[2:59]  Anchor linden is continuing to make progress on this work. It seems the update to support 1024×1024 textures is now complete (or pretty much so), as Vir indicated that the next step is performance testing the baking service in handling 1024×1024 bakes.

[5:53] The updated system should allow textures of different sizes (512×512 and 1024×1024) to me mixed and correctly composited, but testing will be required to confirm this.

[7:30] The mechanics of how bakes are to be applied to meshes is still being worked out. Vir’s thinking it will be another editable property which can be used with meshes to determine which face(s) on the mesh use the baked textures.

Supplemental Animations

Project Summary

To provide server-side support for running multiple animations without them clashing (e.g. wings flapping without interfering with walking).

Status

No progress thus far. Once the animated objects project viewer is available, supplemental animations will likely get some attention.

Other Items

Limits

[11:23-21:25]  Removing the 5m bone translation limit: A question was asked about removing the 5m bone translation limit from its origin to allow for really, really large avatars. The belief behind the question being that this was a recent change which now prevents translations greater than 5m where previously they code be encoded and uploaded.

This lead to a lengthy discussion which encapsulated the idea that the limit appears be deeply embedded in the animation system, and has has always been there; disputes on whether or not it was possible using .ANIM files rather than .BVH, suggestions that an earlier version of the .ANIM format (v.0 – although long dead) may have allowed it, etc.

Vir’s stated belief is that the limit is too deeply embedded in the animation system to have ever been different, although he acknowledged that as the Lab has tightened a range of limits to ensure they are properly observed by the system, it is possible that the limit is now being more rigorously enforced. Either way the limit is unlikely to change. It was also pointed out that rotation, joint position, and scaling the mPelvis bone up are all means by which larger avatar models could be produced.

The core voice comments from Vir are below, please refer to the video for the full conversation – which was also partially text-based.

[22:38 and 31:12] Increasing the animation limit: this has previously come up for discussion. Currently, SL should support up to 64 concurrent animation motions playing at one time per agent (e.g. walks, arm swings, wing flaps, tail swishes, etc.). However, how many can be reliably played at any one time without encountering problems might be lower. A request to increase the limit was made on the basis of then allowing LSL-based description of join positions which could be translated into animations, to allow improved scripted locomotion of NPCs.

[+/-35:45 onwards] Pivot point support and improved IK support: There is a largely text-based discussion on pivot point support for mesh and improved Inverse Kinematics (IK) support  / targeting to allow for better interactions between avatars and avatars and objects (e.g. with IK, being able to have avatar hold hands, “grip” a ladder and climb it, etc). Pivot points would allow improved rotations (doors swinging at the hinge, for example) – although it was pointed out that animated mesh could achieve the same goals.

This conversation touches on having custom / arbitrary skeletons in Second Life – although as Medhue Simoni has pointed out, the Bento skeleton already allows for a fairly wide range of “custom” quadruped and biped skeleton forms to be created. As it is, arbitrary skeletons are not something the Lab will be tackling in the near future.