2023 week #31: SL CCUG + TPVD meetings summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Strandhavet Viking Museum, May 2023 – blog post

The following notes were taken from my audio recording and chat log transcript of the Content Creation User Group (CCUG) meeting held on Thursday, August 3rd, and the Third Party Viewer Developer (TPVD) meeting held on Friday, August 4th, 2023. 

Meetings Overview

  • The CCUG meeting is for discussion of work related to content creation in Second Life, including current work, upcoming work, and requests or comments from the community, together with viewer development work.
  • The TPV Developer meeting provides an opportunity for discussion about the development of, and features for, the Second Life viewer, and for Linden Lab viewer developers and third-party viewer (TPV) / open-source code contributors developers to discuss general viewer development.
  • As a rule, both meetings are:
    • Held in-world and chaired by Vir Linden.
    • Conducted in a mix of voice and text.
    • Held at 13:00 SLT on their respective days.
    • Are subject to the schedule set within the SL Public Calendar, which includes locations for both meetings (also included at the end of these reports).
    • Open to all with an interest in content creation / viewer development.
  • As these meetings occasionally fall “back-to-back” on certain weeks, and often cover some of the same ground, their summaries are sometime combined into a single report (as is the case here). They are drawn from a mix of my own audio recordings of the meeting + chat log (CCUG), and from the video of the TPVD meeting produced by Pantera Północy (which is embedded at the end of the summaries for reference) + chat log. Not that they are summaries, and not intended to be transcripts of everything said during either meeting.

Viewer News

No changes through the week, leaving the current official viewer in the pipeline as:

Note that the alternate viewer page also lists “Win32+MacOS<10.13 – 6.6.12.579987” as an RC viewer. However, the Win 32 + pre-Mac OS 10.13 was promoted to release status on July 5th, and viewer version 6.6.12.579987 points to the Maintenance S viewer, promoted to release status on May 16th.

General Viewer Notes:

  • The Inventory Extensions viewer has a couple of bugs which are preventing it progressing but are being worked on. There are also some simulator-side issues (inventory thumbnail images being dropped) which are also being addressed. However, this remains the next potential viewer for promotion to de facto release, alongside of the Maintenance U RC viewer.
  • The Maintenance U RC includes an extension to actions available when clicking on in-world objects. CLICK_ACTION_INVISIBLE effectively makes an object “invisible” to mouse clicks, allowing it to be clecked through to whatever might be lying behind it.  This functionality will be supported within the next simulator deployment, due in week #32.
  • The Emoji project viewer may see some font changes prior to progressing further (which may additionally require UI work in general) & is still adding further UI additions.

glTF Materials and Reflection Probes

Project Summary

  • To provide support for PBR materials using the core glTF 2.0 specification Section 3.9 and using mikkTSpace tangents, including the ability to have PBR Materials assets which can be applied to surfaces and also traded / sold.
  • The overall goal is to provide as much support for the glTF 2.0 specification as possible.
  • Up to four texture maps are supported for PBR Materials: the base colour (which includes the alpha); normal; metallic / roughness; and emissive, each with independent scaling.
  • In the near-term, glTF materials assets are materials scenes that don’t have any nodes / geometry, they only have the materials array, and there is only one material in that array.
  • As a part of this work, PBR Materials will see the introduction of reflection probes which can be used to generate reflections (via cubemaps) on in-world surfaces. These will be a mix of automatically-place and manually place probes (with the ability to move either).
  • The viewer is available via the Alternate Viewers page.

Further Resources

Status

  • LL is seeking feedback on how best to handle sky rendering. In short, ambient lighting is handled differently within “non-PBR” viewers and “PBR viewers” (notably, the latter uses HDR + tone mapping where the former does not).
  • As the majority of ambient environments have been designed using the “non-PBR” viewer rendering system, they undergo an auto-adjustment process within the PBR viewer so that that match the glTF specification requirements. Unfortunately, this can leave some skies / ambient lighting looking far too dark – and potentially lead to complaints from users on the PBR viewer (at least until more “PBR compliant” EEP assets make themselves available).
  • To compensate for this, LL included the option to disable the HDR / tone mapping processes in the viewer by setting Probe Ambience to 0 with Graphics preferences. However, doing this makes content specifically designed for PBR environments look muted and much poorer than they should. This brings with it the concern that to try to make their content look good in both “PBR” and “non-PBR” environments, creators will start to go “off-piste” (so to speak) from the glTF specification when making new content, thus defaulting the entire objective in trying to move SL to match recognise content creation standards.
  • There have been two main schools of thought within LL as to how to best handle both situations, these being:
    • Continue to iterate on the auto-adjustment system so it can handle a broader range of sky settings that are in popular use without them going overly dark within the PBR viewer.
    • Initially make HDR / tone mapping opt-in, rather than opt-out (so probe ambience is set to 0 by default, but can be set above zero by users as required) until such time as all viewers are running with PBR, then switch to making it opt-out (so HDR / tone mapping must be manually disabled).
  • General feedback at the meeting was for LL to continue to try to iterate and improve the the automatic adjustment to HDR / tone mapping for skies, so as to avoid the need for content creators to have to start producing “PBR” and “non PBR” versions of their content.
  • Outside of this, it has also been reported that multiple script-driven glTF materials updates (such has those that might be seen with the changing pattens on a disco floor, for example) actually cause multiple network connections, impacting network bandwidth to the viewer, which is hardly ideal.  This is currently being addressed, but until fixed on the simulator side, it will see a pause in glTF simulator updates being released.
  • The work on “hero” reflection probes for planar mirrors is continuing to progress.

Senra Discussions – CCUG and TPVD

Via the Content Creation Meeting:

  • A lengthy discussion on the Senra SDK and the requirement for Avastar with Blender – seen as a paywall block for creators who may not have previously entered the clothing market, but who want to in order to support Senra. Unfortunately, no-one directly involved in the Senra body development was at the meeting to handle questions.
    • Avastar is generally required with Blender as  the latter uses “none-standard” axes orientation compared to other tools, resulting in issues such as armature rotations being incorrect, plus its Collada export doesn’t (I gather, subject to correction here) support volume bones.
    • However, it was noted that other mesh bodies available within SL provide SDKs where these uses are fixed for Blender without the need to reference Avastar – so the questions were raised as to why LL haven’t done the same (or at least looked at those solutions).
    • The discussion broadened into issues with the avatar blend file itself which have long required fixing, with the promise that all comments on the SDK, Blender, and the avatar Blend file will be passed back to the relevant parties at the Lab.
      Those at the meeting from LL noted their hope that  – down the road – the switch from Collada to glTF-compatible formats will help to eliminate many issues related to avatar content creation, and if nothing else, will look to address specific issues . this, and that if nothing else, they will mark the need to fix the armature rotation issue with that work (“glTF Phase 2”) if it is not addressed beforehand.

Via the TPVD Meeting:

  • It was noted that there currently isn’t a formal venue for discussion Senra outside of the current forum threads or the Discord channel (for those able to access it.
  • The suggestion is currently to have a special purpose meeting – possibly under the CCUG banner – where those who developed Senra could respond to questions / concerns. This suggestion is being passed to Patch Linden who is better placed to arrange a meeting, given the Senra project largely falls within his remit.
  • There is a lot of concern / confusion over the SDK licensing (again, please refer to the forum thread on this for details).
  •  It was indicated that the Senra content will soon have inventory thumbnails included, ready for when the Inventory Extension viewer is promoted to release status.
  • Concerns about new users getting confused by wearing Senra items directly from the Library a) do not appear to be highlighted to indicate they have been added to the avatar (this is actually because the process of “wearing” the item has actually generated a copy within the user’s inventory, which *is* highlighted as added / worn); b) individual items added to an avatar in this manner go to the matching object class type system folder, *not* to a dedicated Senra folder (e.g. mesh clothing is copied to the Objects folder; skins go to the Body folder, etc.).

In Brief

Via the TPVD meeting

  • General discussions on:
    • Scalable fonts (as implemented by Genesis viewer).
    • How TPVs block older versions (for releases, the viewer requests a list of blocked versions from the TPV server in question (say, Firestorm, for the sake of argument), and if it finds itself on the list, it terminates trying to log-in to SL).
    • The move to de-dupe some asset types (textures, notecards, scripts  & (possibly) gestures by giving multiple CDN versions the same UUID number, including clarification on the difference between the original asset, the UUIDs for multiple versions and also inventory IDs (which handle permissions, etc.).
    • An extensive discussion on chat bubbles and toasts in the official viewer.
  • Please refer to the TPVD meeting video below for further details on the above discussions.

Next Meetings

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a gathering of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

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Published by Inara Pey

Eclectic virtual world blogger with a focus on Second Life, VR, virtual environments and technology.

One thought on “2023 week #31: SL CCUG + TPVD meetings summary”

  1. There seem to be some rather major communication issues going on regarding the Senra avatar. Not just this but a lot that I’ve seen so far.
    On their official technical wiki page, it says that you can use Avastar or a related plugin, not Avastar alone.
    It would be much easier if we didn’t need any plugins at all, or at the least have an open-source option available for anyone to use.

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