Tag: Simulator User Group 2025

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, February 18th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, February 18th, 2025, the Banana Bread update was deployed to the SLS Main channel This update includes expansions to llGetObjectPermMask that let you get an object’s permission mask taking into account the permissions on its inventory, and that ability has been added to llGOD.
• On Wednesday, February 19th, 2025:
  • Carrot Cake should be deployed to the Bluesteel RC. This includes Monty Linden’s work on EventQueueGet (a simulator Capability that delivers messages from a simulator to viewers over HTTP using a long-poll scheme. It is core functionality without which viewer/simulator coordination is impossible).
  • The remaining RC channel will be restarted without any deployment.

SL Viewer Updates

• Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12999043440, February 4, 2025 – No Change.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• Leviathan Linden has been been working with another Lab developer to improve avatar loading. He believes they have been able to make a few improvements, particularly in improving near-to-far sorting for avatar loading, with those nearby loading the fastest.
  • He hopes that the work will surface in a viewer update in March.
  • This is seen as offering “small” improvements, as further work will be required on the simulator end so the server sorts avatar data at its end rather than just sending it, but this has yet to be done.
• Leviathan also noted that the packet loss / UDP data loss noted in the last SUG meeting appears to be a result of the viewer allowing the network socket buffer (the one managed by the OS) to overflow, which can happen when the viewer experiences a long frame. It can also affect avatar loading, so his fix for the issue is going into that work.
• Region crossings / Disconnects: More reports of issues, particularly around teleports and disconnects user Quinn Elara has been logging her experiences, which the Lab has been looking at (note: be aware if posting viewer log information to the Feedback Portal, as it can contain personal information).  This issue became a topic of conversation through a portion of the meeting.
  • The above slid into a conversation of using the BugSplat tool in the viewer for reporting data.

 

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, February 11th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, February 11th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, February 5th, 2025 the Banana Bread update should be deployed to the remaining RC channels, having been deployed to BlueSteel RC last week) This update includes expansions to llGetObjectPermMask that let you get an object’s permission mask taking into account the permissions on its inventory, and that ability has been added to llGOD.

Upcoming Deployments

• The simulator update to Banana Bread is called Carrot Cake.
• Development on this update has been “accelerated” such that an initial deployment to the BlueSteel RC in week #7 (commencing 17th, February 2025).
• This update should include llSetGroundTexture – this will allow a region owner/EM to set and adjust ground textures on a region, including some of the PBR features like rotation, offset and scale.
• Monty Linden indicated his work on EventQueueGet (a simulator Capability that delivers messages from a simulator to viewers over HTTP using a long-poll scheme. It is core functionality without which viewer/simulator coordination is impossible) is to be rolled into Carrot Cake. He further indicated that he plans to update the SL Wiki documents on EventQueueGet as time permits.

SL Viewer Updates

• Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12999043440, February 4, 2025.
  • Numerous crash and performance fixes.
• SL Mobile (Beta) version 2025.1.542 / 0.5.533 – Create / Delete accounts, fixes – February 4,  2025.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• llGetEnvironment (+ related functions) return inaccurate unit vectors for sun / moon position is still awaiting action.
• Requests were made for LSL  capabilities for manipulating the upcoming llGroundTexture.
• There was a report that the entire SLS Main Channel was restarted a second time during week #6. However, Rider Linden indicated that a number of regions were moved between servers, which prompted restarts, but there was no additional LL-lead restart of the entire channel.
• There are reports that there is a bug with llRezObjectWithParams: in using REZ_POZ with the local flag set TRUE, the rezzed object is positioned against in-world coordinates instead of rezzer local coordinates. So, for example, if the rezzer is aligned with world coordinates, the object arrives where expected, but if the rezzer is rotated, the object continues to arrive at the unrotated position. A bug report has been requested on this.
• Rider Linden noted that there is liable to be Lua server-side scripting engine news “soon”. This was followed by a general discussion on the project.
• Leviathan Linden has confirmed the viewer is dropping packets when it gets spikes of UDP data. He is going to try to provide a patch for viewers to prevent this, but also needs to look into the server behaviour to try to determine why and how the data spikes are happening. This sparked a discussion on UDP, packet loss and bandwidth which ran the most of the meeting.
• A request was made for the status of much-needed PBR-related LSL functions (plus easy PBR alpha-switching and PBR override permissions). The response was an agreement that they are needed, but not on an “immediate” queue for implementation.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, February 4th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, February 4th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, February 5th, 2025:
  • The Banana Bread update will be deployed to the BlueSteel channel. This include expansions to llGetObjectPermMask that let you get an object’s permission mask taking into account the permissions on its inventory, and that ability has been added to llGOD.
  • The remaining RC channels will be restarted, most likely without any deployment.

SL Viewer Updates

• Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12999043440, February 4, 2025.
  • Numerous crash and performance fixes.
• SL Mobile (Beta) version 2025.1.542 / 0.5.533 – Create / Delete accounts, fixes – February 4,  2025.

2K Bakes on Mesh is Live

2k BoM is now live! As of yesterday, we’ve switched over to the new bake service, and we’ll be posting a blog post soon!

– Pepper Linden

This deployment does not require a viewer update, and is grid-wide – more in the Lab’s official blog post (published February 6th). The update should also see faster bake times.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• There are reports of an uptick in packet loss in simulator – viewer exchanges (reportedly 20% on average), and some are reporting associated lag with local chat.
• Rider Linden is working on updates to llSetGroundTexture:
  • This will allow a region owner/EM to set and adjust ground textures on a region, including some of the PBR features like rotation, offset and scale.
  • This work should be surfacing in the next simulator update after Banana Bed – called Carrot Cake.
• Those who have tested ForeverFPS are reporting it offers an improve Linden Water appearance (fresnel reflection/refraction).
• A request for increased terrain resolution led to a discussion on overhauling the terrain system in various ways, during which Leviathan Linden offered some history about Second Life and Linden World:

The terrain layer currently uses lossy DCT compression … The reason it uses DCT is ancient history: in the beginning SL (or Linden World as we called it back then) was expected to be sending dynamic layer data (terrain, water, wind, clouds, moisture, and ???). For dynamic layers we thought we should be using more compact compression. So terrain was a “layer” and grouped with the others. Eventually all the other layers were dropped and we ended up with a single mostly static layer that is using the wrong compression scheme.

• The above was interwoven with a discussion on KVP data.
• Various discussion on Luau and scripting.
• A general discussion on region crossings.
• Questions were asked on the Havoc physics engine. Currently, the viewer-side sub-library is being updated to Havok 2022, the simulator is running 2012.1, with Leviathan Linden noting that Havok has tried to “encourage” LL to update on the server-side; however, no physics update is likely to occur in the next year.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, January 29th, 2025 the RC channels will be restarted, most likely without any deployment.
  • It had been hoped that Banana Bread, the next simulator update, would be deployed to the BlueSteel channel; however, this is likely to be held over until next week due to a late-break issues.

SL Viewer Updates

• Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12935708795, January 24, 2025.
  • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

2K Bakes on Mesh Update

We have some exciting news regarding 2k bake — it’s no longer blocked, and we are in the process of scheduling a deploy. We anticipate this making its way to Agni within the next few weeks (ideally sooner than later), hopefully at the next SUG I’ll have a specific date.

– Pepper Linden

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• Rider Linden noted that he is not yet in a position to work  on Combat 2.1 (see the Proposal specification + feedback).
• There was a question concerning the surfacing of llSetAgentRot. Leviathan Linden responded:

Viewer feature development is basically blocked right now. The viewer dev team is focused on FPS improvements. Meanwhile, there has been some pileup of viewer features in the develop branch, but a few months of work there is not included in ForeverFPS [the current RC viewer] viewer. The ForeverFPS viewer project does not want to pull in all of the pileup of changes in develop: they don’t want to destabilize the FPS improvements they are working on.

• Leviathan further indicated his viewer-side Game control work is similarly held-up, which led to a conversation on getting the capability out in some form.
• Rider Linden hinted that there is “exciting news” in the Lua(u) scripting project “on the horizon”.
• A discussion on this forum thread, outlining some of what is seen as SL’s major technical issues. Leviathan Linden re-iterated he’s working on one of these issues: that of slow loading on avatars and in-world objects on log-in / following a teleport.
• A discussion on possible issues about linkset messaging and linkset data.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday,  January 21st, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, January 21st, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, January 22nd, 2025 the RC channels will be restarted.
• Banana Bread, the next simulator update will be likely be deployed to Aditi for testing.

SL Viewer Updates

• Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12793544240, January 17, 2025.
  • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• Leviathan Linden is due to resume work on the problem where content doesn’t always show up on first login/teleport arrival after being asked to look into a couple of other issues. His initial investigations have indicated that the problem is most likely simulator-side, be he’s still digging into the exact cause.
• 2K Bakes on Mesh:
  • Pepper Linden confirmed the simulator updates have been approved by QA.
  • Pepper also confirmed the viewer update is related to a problem found within the texture pipeline of ExtraFPS using too much VRAM (see this Canny issue report). This fix is due to go into the Lab’s ForeverFPS viewer update, and LL would like Firestorm to include it in a release before switching on 2K BoM.
• There is some confusion as to the status of the glTF scene import project in the wake of Runitai Linden’s departure from LL.
  • Runitai got as far as prototyping the capability on Aditi, but it was not tied into the physical engine.
  • As has been mentioned numerous times, the majority of the focus within the graphics / viewer teams has been on improving overall viewer performance and is currently geared towards assisting Firestorm deal with blocker to their ExtraFPS release.
• The above led to a discussion on the value of including some form of 3D mesh editing tool in the viewer. Unsurprisingly. These discussions saw a range of viewpoints expressed.
• Leviathan Linden intimated that the viewer-side work for his game controller updates (which are available server-side) is also pending on resources within the viewer team becoming available in order to make the game control options more easily accessible (e.g. with the official viewer, it has to be unlocked via the Advanced menu).
• A discussion on properly-supported “walking / running backwards” animations states.
• It was suggested that the server-side Luau work (scripting) could be deployed to Aditi “in the next few months (possibly)” to allow scripters to poke at it while it is still in development.
• Requests for additions to the official viewer, including RLV (RLV/a has been contributed by Kitty Barnett for inclusion in the official viewer, but the status of the work in doing so is unclear – it’s a significant piece of work).
• A reminder that Monty Linden is working to correct defects within EventQueueGet (a simulator Capability that delivers messages from a simulator to viewers over HTTP using a long-poll scheme. It is core functionality without which viewer/simulator coordination is impossible), and is seeking feedback  – see here for both defects, proposals to resolve and how to test.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday,  January 14th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, January 15th, all remaining RC channel outside of BlueSteel should be updated with the Apple Cobbler simulator update, which includes llGetAttachedListFiltered(),llGiveAgentInventory(),llMapBeacon(),llTransferOwnership(), and a modification to llModPow, so it should work faster (however, it does not correctly handle the full range of positive 31-bit integers -and Leviathan Linden is working to define the range for which it supplies correct answers, so check the wiki page for updates).

SL Viewer Updates

• Release viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: none at present.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• Rider Linden:

 I have an internal change dealing with how the simulator makes outgoing HTTP calls. It’s just a proof of concept and changes how a few things at start-up are handled, residents shouldn’t see any differences. As that expands further in the future, I’ll start calling out things that people should be paying attention to.

• Leviathan Linden:

Just a status update on what I’m working on: I’ve been trying to come up with a reliable repro for the “sometimes objects don’t show up upon login/teleport arrival — in order for them to show up you need to do a relog” problem. Although I don’t have a reliable repro for it I’ve verified it is a real server-side bug and have some ideas to try out. I got side-tracked on something but will get back to working on that later today.

• A request was made on whether there could be a way for an Experience owner to see the data stored (e.g. as two-column spreadsheet) and without having to query the whole thing a few keys at a time. This led to a general discussion on now this might be achieved, with Monty Linden adding:

 KVP things are something we have to look at again in the future – if people have wants, now is a good time to start asking … if something’s needed, can add it to the stew pot.

• The above led to a broader discussion on scripting – a viewer UI for LSD / status on the Luau project for the viewer (unclear, as Signal Linden had to depart the meeting before replying); the potential for a llLinkSetData equivalent on avatars (seen as unwise because of some of the potentials it might present – such as allowing a script to put “cookies” on avatars), data storage, touched on this Canny request, and circled back to user-supplied grid-wide experiences. This discussion ran through most of the rest of the meeting.
• The question was asked whether it would be possible to have llGetObjectDetails respect parcel privacy settings, whereby if an object that isn’t on the parcel you are standing on has Avatars On Other Parcels Can See and Chat with Avatars on This Parcel toggled off, it won’t be able to get a list of your attachments – notably as a form of protection against data-gathering bots. Rider Linden requested a Canny feature request on this.
• A discussion on llDerezObject.
• Leviathan Linden suggested that a merge of 2k BOM has passed a QA review; however, as Pepper Linden was not available at the meeting to confirm overall status.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.