Tag: Simulator User Group 2023

2023 SL SUG meetings week #45 summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Tilheyra, September 2023 – blog post †

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, November 7th Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and is not intended to be a full transcript.

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • They are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Server Deployments

  • No deployments for SLS Main channel, but the simhosts were restarted.
  • The planned Wednesday, November 8th deployment of the PBR Material simulator support to all RC channels has been put on hold pending the resolution of a late-breaking issue.
    • At the time of the meeting, the proposal was to restart simhosts on the Ferrari and Magnum RC channels, whilst BlueSteel and LeTigre (the two currently with the PBR support) to receive updated code before the end of the week.
    • Please remember: if you have anything that uses PBR materials and you rez that object (or wear it) on a non-PBR simulator,  the PBR Materials will be stripped from the object and forgotten.
As it turns out the new message introduced by Materials was generating unacked packets back to the simulator. In groups of one or to agents this isn’t a big deal… but add a user here and a user there and pretty soon you’re talking about real data, and this extra overhead was causing some performance issues on our end that would eat into script time. We have a solution to it and we are just trying to reach a consensus on how best to roll that onto the grid.

– Rider Linden, describing the issue which prevented the simulator-side PBR code deploying to all RC channels

Viewer Updates

No updates to viewers for the start of the week, leaving the official viewer pipelines as:

  • Github Actions (GHA) RC viewer, version 6.6.16.6566955269, issued October 20 (with major CEF update and number version numbering) and promoted on October 25.
  • Release channel cohorts:
  • Project viewers:

SL Combat

  • Regarding the “Combat Committee” and requests for capabilities for combat in Second Life, Rider Linden stated:
I don’t have news on any sort of when for that. I am actively working on a proposal that I’m going to float around the lab and then bring to the community. That may end up involving creating what I’ve been calling a “Combat Committee”… because I love alliteration. I don’t think I’m going to have anything useful to report on that though until January next year. I would really like to get some tools in that would allow people to create some interesting combat systems.

– Rider Linden

In Brief

  • Requests from users:
    • An update on the recent region crossing tests (see October’s SUG summaries). Monty Linden is working on this, but has been out-of-office, so a further update may be forthcoming at an upcoming meeting once he is back.
    • Custom pivot points – a capability being considered as a further part of the glTF project, as this will enable hierarches that will make arbitrary pivots a lot easier.
    • Animation priority updates: these was going to be looked at as a part of the on-hold Puppetry project. However, any such work is unlikely to include things like changing priorities by script, as these are seen as problematic.
    • A request for new sensor functions which could better enable RP functions (e.g. detacting NPC, casting speeling), together with further requests for Feature Requests such as BUG-4329 “Feature Request: New sensor functions that are not bound to a prim’s position & rotation plus inclusion of an Owner filter” and BUG-233784 “Add sensor type LOW_SCRIPTED as an option”, and also increasing the number of objects a sensor can report on from 16 to 32.
  • Rider Linden is developing ideas for possible scripted camera control updates, and is adding BUG-6325 “More Flag parameters for llSetCameraParams()” to the list.
  • Requests are being made for those with games controller to try the pre-release Game Controller viewer and offer feedback. This is still currently Windows only, but a MacOS version is coming Soon™.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

2023 SL SUG meetings week #44 summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Grauland, August 2023 – blog post †

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, October 31st Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and is not intended to be a full transcript. My thanks to Yuzuru Jewell for the meeting transcript – for once, clock changes caught me off-guard, and I missed the greater part of the meeting!

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • They are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Server Deployments

  • No deployments for SLS Main channel, but the simhosts were restarted.
  • On Wednesday, November 1st the BlueSteel and LeTigre will receive the simulator support for PBR Materials.
    • Please remember: if you have anything that uses PBR materials and you rez that object (or wear it) on a non-PBR simulator,  the PBR Materials will be stripped from the object and forgotten.

Viewer Updates

No updates to viewers for the start of the week, leaving the official viewer pipelines as:

  • Github Actions (GHA) RC viewer, version 6.6.16.6566955269, issued October 20 (with major CEF update and number version numbering) and promoted on October 25.
  • Release channel cohorts (please see my notes on manually installing RC viewer versions if you wish to install any release candidate(s) yourself).
  • Project viewers:

Games Controller Update

  • Leviathan Linden is having issues getting the viewer to build for Mac.
  • He hopes to have support for arbitrary controllers before this is shippable in the viewer, Which means some way to remap keys and axes.
  • The server-side code has been largely settled for any initial release, although there are some questions about whether some LSL constant names will be added for the various buttons and axes.
  • The documentation for the Game Controller SL event can be found with the SL wiki.
  • A projects viewer is available via Github actions, but per the above, simulator support is pending the Fall Colours RC release.
  • Pending main grid availability, the simulator support is available on Aditi (the Beta grid) within the following regions: Ahern, Cloud Sandbox 3, Cloud Sandbox 4, Mesh Sandbox 2, Sandbox Wanderton, Snark, and Tyl.

SL Combat

  • Rider Linden noted that LL will likely start a “Combat Committee” in early 2024 (presumably a new User Group meeting).
  • He will endeavour to put a strawman put together in terms of what might be addressed and the broad scope of changes which could be implemented ahead of any meetings. Currently, he is investigating the number of combat systems within SL.
  • However, what his is currently considering is an “on_damage() event, which he defines thus:
On damage-enabled regions that event would be called rather than the system simply applying damage. That would allow the combat system to make modifications to the damage (e.g. fire resistance, armour, etc) That event could then apply the damage to the avatar it was attached to. My goal for this project is to provide the tools to build combat systems. Not proscribe one to fit all situations.  
  • This idea received broadly positive feedback from the combat enthusiasts attending the meeting, with the caveat that the event must be able to report any damage source, to allow for moderation where there are differences of opinion over things like hits received.
  • Further suggestions for this idea and combat in general included:
    • on_damage(): the LL damage system should work as a “fallback”,  so people don’t require an attachment.
    • on_damage(): estates should be able to configure “minimum” and “maximum” damage hit limits to prevent people trying to game things via scripted means (e.g. using a scripted attachment to prevent taking any damage at all or weapons which “instakill” all the time).
    • A further request for a capability such as BUG-6707, “[Experience Tools] Feature Request – Parcel/region setting to allow/disallow non-experience scripts”, which  – for combat regions using SL Experiences – could do much to negate scripted means of trying to “cheat” per the above bullet point.
    • An update to the the rez with parameters event to allow those engaged in combat to be able to instantly swap weapons without having to attach all the weapons they might require ahead of entered a combat game.
    • Enabling region owners to set the response to “dying” in combat (/games in general) – such as a flag which allows the “dead” to be teleported to a specific location (e.g. a specific spawn point” or the region / parcel’s landing point), together with a “respawn cooldown” period (e.g. players being respawned receive no damage for a given period of time – preventing someone just taking up shop near a respawn point and picking people off as soon as they arrive).
    • A request for a capability such as BUG-233175 “llSetAgentParams: a way to customize certain agent attributes” – this would not only have general applications (e.g. those outlined in the Jira), it might potentially allow things like the avatar hitbox to resize in accordance with the avatar size.
  • Intermixed with this was a broader discussion both related to and separate from combat in SL, including scripted object collisions (raised specifically with issues of vehicle use and region crossings / striking banlines (e.g. see BUG227303), but which can also impact combat play in SL – e.g. by shutting down worn combat meters on region crossing).
  • As Rider noted, is is still putting together a strawman specification as to what might be considered as having potential to be addressed, scope of possible changes etc., doubtless with at least some of what was discussed in the meeting feeding into it, as he continues to visit combat regions and investigate the current systems in use, etc. As such, this will likely become a more focused discussion once any such “Combat User Group” is up and running.

In Brief

  • It has been noted that on the current PBR RC viewer, texture LOD has apparently changed, breaking the majority of on prim boards at a distance over 20m, and leaving the only way to get clear text on objects such as a sports scoring board is by using individual font character text per face rather than font map/atlas. This issue appears to be awaiting a Jira.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

2023 SL SUG meetings week #43 summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Ashemi Rising, August 2023 – blog post †

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, October 24th Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and is not intended to be a full transcript.

Server Deployments

  • No deployments for the week. However, all simhosts (SLS Main and RC) will be restarted.

Upcoming Deployments

  • The “fall Colours” simulator update is being held back due to a blocking bug which causes the viewer to hang. This requires both a viewer fix and an simulator fix, both of which are in progress. Despite the delay, the hope is to have this release to RC status before US Thanksgiving and grid-wide after Thanksgiving.
  • The simulator-side code for game controller support is also within the “Fall Colours” simulator update.
  • code will also be presented in initial work on updates to the SL damage system – specifically making damage a property of the object (e.g. a bullet), rather than being a script property (see the previous SUG meeting notes and this forum thread discussion) will now hopefully be available for testing on Aditi in week #42 and are being lined-up with the upcoming “Fall Colours” simulator update.
  • The rez_object_fail update planned for the upcoming “Fall Colours” simulator update is likely to slip back to a later simulator release.
  • The ability to turn an avatar invisible when they are sitting is being targeted for a simulator release following “Fall Colours”. This will help address issues such as allowing avatars to sit on small vehicles without them having to be deformed and folded up inside them to fit. This may additionally encompass the likes of feature requests BUG-232678 and/or BUG-233175.

Viewer Updates

No updates to viewers for the start of the week, leaving the official viewer pipelines as:

  • Release viewer, version 6.6.15.581961, promoted October 2 (formerly the Inventory Extensions Viewer).
  • Release channel cohorts:
  • Project viewers:

Games Controller Update

  • The documentation for the Game Controller SL event can be found with the SL wiki.
  • A projects viewer is available via Github actions, but per the above, simulator support is pending the Fall Colours RC release.
  • Pending main grid availability, the simulator support is available on Aditi (the Beta grid) within the following regions: Ahern, Cloud Sandbox 3, Cloud Sandbox 4, Mesh Sandbox 2, Sandbox Wanderton, Snark, and Tyl.
  • Currently, only 6 axes are supported on game controllers.

In Brief

  • A further discussion on combat and games in SL, updates to llDetectedDamage. This includes feature requests BUG-234583 “Detected Damage (combat updates)” and BUG-234584 “Detected Rezzer/Parent (combat updates)” and Linden damage. This also covering projectile rezzing, health regeneration, the ability to hve a Damage event trigger, rules enforcement (e.g. via scripts / experiences), etc.
  • The conversation spun out to touch other areas of interest to, but not reliant on gameplay in SL:  the ability to crawl under objects, an actual crawl option within the locomotion graph, ideas such as feature request BUG-233175 “llSetAgentParams: a way to customize certain agent attributes”, whether or not the existing system for combat should be retained and enhanced or replaced – or a new system introduced with the old behaviours retained for those wishing to continue to use it.
  • Much of the discussion was speculative / requests, and it took up most of the meeting.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

2023 SL SUG meetings week #42 summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Dwejra, August 2023 – blog post †

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, October 17th Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and is not intended to be a full transcript.

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • They are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Server Deployments

  • No deployments for the week (again). However, all simhosts (SLS Main and RC) will be restarted.

Upcoming Deployments

Viewer Updates

The current batch of official viewer versions is as follows:

Potential for Games Controller Use

  • This work sees the introduction of a new LSL event called game_control, the format for which Leviathan defined as:
game_control(key id, list buttons_edge_down, list buttons_edge_up, list buttons_down, list axes). Lots of lists, but that was necessary to support treating the keyboard as a “big controller with lots of buttons”. I created some docs for the game_control stuff on the LSL wiki.
  • Leviathan also noted there should be a GameControl category page, at the time of writing the link to it had yet to be added to the game_control wiki page.
  • The server work is now considered wrapped, and the focus is on the viewer support.
  • Overall, the work is seen as an initially simple pass to provide basic support for the use of game controllers in SL and intended to get things rolling; so capabilities such a building a “virtual game controller”, as requested at previous meetings are not available. However, he noted that, “Once the network protocol is nailed down and the script stuff… it will still be possible to modify the viewer. “
  • Key points of note include:
    • The feature doesn’t require permissions, but can be enabled via checkboxes in the viewer UI. However, Leviathan noted it could be piggybacked on controls permissions.
    • Subject to testing, the keystrokes are the remapped ones according to other UI settings.
    • The capability currently only works for attachments and seats, it cannot be used for avatar movement.
    • Doesn’t as yet support controller gyro, or rumble feedback nor support for trackpad position for game controllers that have it, nor does it support the use of mouse position recognition and buttons.
    • The above two points have a potential to be added later, “perhaps”.

In Brief

  • The official blog post on the deployment of a simulator update to resolved the communications / bandwidth issue referenced in recent CCUG meeting summaries was referenced.
  • Two feature requests for avatar movement were raised – BUG-234557 and BUG-233175 – leading Rider to note:
Adjustable avatar movement would be possible… the only thing about it that gives me pause is… I know how delicately tuned the avatar motion logic is under the hood, to allow for walking up low ledges, friction when stopping, and how the avatar tries to stand still when at rest but still be “bumpable” by other avatars and objects.

This led to an extended discussion on avatar movement and options for allowing the use of a velocity model for avatar movement (thus allowing for avatars moving at different walking speeds, etc). This lead to a broader discussion on avatar movement / animations, etc., which touched on the dormant puppetry project.

  • HTTP work. Rider Linden noted he is back to working on his HTTP code and simulator asset handling refactoring, and is hoping to get the underpinning code refactor completed in the next week(ish) and then work on the asset management side. This led to a request for the issue of Modify items becoming labelled as No Mod for the owner when a No Mod item is place in its contents & then taken back to inventory (even though the item still have Modify permissions), which in turn generated a request for a Jira report.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

2023 SL SUG meetings week #41 summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
The Waterfall Café, August 2023 –blog post †

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, October 10th Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and is not intended to be a full transcript. A video of the entire meeting is embedded at the end of the article for those wishing to review the meeting in full – my thanks to Pantera for recording it.

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • They are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Server Deployments

  • No deployments for the week. However, all simhosts (SLS Main and RC) will be restarted.

Upcoming Deployments

  • The initial work on updates to the SL damage system – specifically making damage a property of the object (e.g. a bullet), rather than being a script property (see the previous SUG meeting notes and this forum thread discussion) will now hopefully be available for testing on Aditi in week #42 and are being lined-up with the upcoming “Fall Colours” simulator update.
  • The rez_object_fail update planned for the upcoming “Fall Colours” simulator update is likely to slip back to a later simulator release.
  • The ability to turn an avatar invisible when they are sitting is being targeted for a simulator release following “Fall Colours”. This will help address issues such as allowing avatars to sit on small vehicles without them having to be deformed and folded up inside them to fit. This may additionally encompass the likes of feature requests BUG-232678 and/or BUG-233175.

Viewer Updates

No updates to viewers for the start of the week, leaving the official viewer pipelines as:

  • Release viewer, version 6.6.15.581961, promoted October 2 (formerly the Inventory Extensions Viewer).
  • Release channel cohorts:
  • Project viewers:

Potential for Games Controller Use

  • No major update, Leviathan is trapped in a loop of bug-hunting whilst trying to set-up a test region on Aditi with the necessary LSL support for controllers.

Region Crossing Code Tests

Monty Linden provided an initial breakdown on the recent region crossing code tests (see the two previous SUG meeting summaries). The summary being:

  • While chaotic and the resultant data not entirely reliable in all cases, it was sufficient to demonstrate the code tested can offer noticeable improvements to teleport and physical region crossings.
  • The tests specifically demonstrated that the impact of “bad” (script-heavy) attachments can be significantly reduced with the new code (up to around 5-6 faster in the very worst cases). That presumably relates to vehicle-related crossings more than anything, but hopefully Monty will clarify this once he gets to a stage of confidence in the data to perhaps provide a forum post).
  • Monty also commented that “bad” avatars (again for some undefined measure of “bad”) faired somewhat better during region crossings than he had anticipated.
  • More formalised testing method for crossings is being developed within the Lab, but Monty expects that the revised code thus far tested is likely to find its way into simulator releases in the future.

In Brief

  • Following the region crossing discussion, several people participating in the last pile-on test reported issues of attachments failing to re-load correctly following a teleport, and having to be manually re-attached. However, the same issue was also noted as occurring for some prior to the test, and also by some who didn’t attend the test, suggesting it may be an uptick in a pre-existing bug.
  • Rider Linden indicated he is considering implementing a fix to correct the following scenario:
An agent can select a physical object that they do not own and have no rights to edit and stop it in place. It is useful to be able to select the object, but causing it to stop interferes with events like racing. Somebody in the stands can grab the leader’s vehicle and hold it there.

This sparked a debate on the issue having been fixed with the implementation of llSetStatus(STATUS_BLOCK_GRAB_OBJECT) having already achieve this, together with suggestion to revise it (if it requires implementation) to exclude land owners, so they might continue to stop and move unwanted physical objects rezzed on their land by others. This discussion took-up most of the latter half of the meeting.

  • The end of the meeting includes a short discussion on revamping the Linden trees which focus on ideas and requests more than actual work being planned.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

2023 SL SUG meetings week #40 summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Kuroshima, July 2023 – blog post †

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, October 3rd Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed and is not intended to be a full transcript. A video of the entire meeting is embedded at the end of the article for those wishing to review the meeting in full – my thanks to Pantera for recording it.

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • They are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Server Deployments

  • On Tuesday, October 3rd, simhosts on the SLS Main channel were restarted without any code update.
  • On Wednesday, October 4th, the RC channels will be similarly restarted without any change to the simulator version.
  • A new simulator RC (dubbed “Fall Colours”) is due to go to QA in week #41, and then to deployment in week #42 (commencing Monday, October 16th).

Viewer Updates

The Inventory Extensions RC viewer, version 6.6.15.581961, and issued on September 28th, was promoted to de facto release status on Monday, October 2nd, 2023.

The rest of the current viewers in the pipeline remain as:

  • Release channel cohorts:
  • Project viewers:

Potential for Games Controller Use

Further to recent meetings, Leviathan Linden gave the following update.

Just a quick update on the “game controllers input exposed to LSL” project before everyone starts teleporting around: (1) I was having trouble getting game controller events from SDL2 (Simple DirectMedia Layer) to the viewer, but finally figured out what was blocking them –> SDL2 will work for us. (2) I’m working on getting the data streamed from the veiwer to the simulator in a new message. (3) After that I need to shuttle the data to the relevant scripted objects (attachments and seats only, for now). The new script event for the data is already written. (4) I hope to get a test region up and a compatible viewer available for download tomorrow. If I manage it then I will announce on the Scripting channel on the SecondLife Discord server for anyone who wants to try it out.

Region Crossing Code Tests

There was a further round of region crossing tests led by Maestro and Monty Linden, this two using two pairs of regions apiece using different simulator configurations, and intended to test avatar / vehicle physical crossings. As we all know, avatars entering a region that is busy / active with other avatars, can have an impact on simulator performance – which although not as bad as it once was thanks to an earlier tranche of this work a few years ago, is still a problem. The aim of this work is to smooth things even further for both teleports and direct crossings.

In Brief

  • Rider Linden raised the question of changing the Second Life damage system, and its potential impact on combat and similar systems (potentially removing the the need for scripts in bullets, for example):
Right now damage is a property of a script… what would be the impact of making that a property of the prim [instead]? It would remain script accessible/settable I’m just changing where it is stored. The big drawback would be that right now it would appear you could have multiple scripts apply damage… you’d lose that capability. The damage change is just the one ambiguity that I need to resolve before I go forward with something larger. But I’m going to save most of that discussion for next week. … I just want it bumping around inside people’s skulls for a bit

So, if you are into combat in SL – attending next week’s meeting might be beneficial.

  • As a side-note to the above, this change would also potentially allow negative values, which basically heal the target.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.