On Tuesday, August 9th, the Main (SLS) channel received the server maintenance package deployed to the three RC’s in week #31, and which was itself an update to the RC deployment of July 27th due to BUG-37573.
There were no RC deployment on Wednesday, August 10th.
SL Viewer
It had been anticipated that the Maintenance RC viewer might be promoted as the de facto release viewer this week. Instead, a new version of the RC arrived on Monday, August 8th – version 4.0.7.318301.
The rest of the available official viewers remain as:
Current Release version: 4.0.6.315555 (dated May 23rd), promoted July 5th – formerly the Inventory Message RC viewer
RC viewers:
VLC Media Plugin RC viewer, version 4.1.1.318152, dated July 28th – replaces the QuickTime media plugin for the Windows version of the viewer with one based on LibVLC
Visual Outfits Browser RC viewer, version 4.0.7.318263, dated August 1st – ability to preview images of outfits in the Appearance floater.
Project viewers:
Project Bento (avatar skeleton extensions), version 5.0.0.317597, dated July 14th – incorporation of final skeleton and slider updates from the test viewer
Obsolete platform viewer, version 3.7.28.300847 dated May 8th, 2015 – provided for users on Windows XP and OS X versions below 10.7.
The following notes and audio were taken from the weekly Bento User Group meeting, held on Thursday, August 4th at 13:30 SLT at the the Hippotropolis Campfire Circle. For details on the meeting agenda, please refer to the Bento User Group wiki page.
Note that this update is not intended to offer a full transcript of the meeting, nor does it present the discussion points in chronological order. Rather, it represents the core points of discussion, grouped together by subject matter were relevant / possible, whilst maintaining the overall context of the meeting.
Lab Summit Feedback
Troy and Vir attended an internal Second Life summit at the Lab, where Troy gave a further presentation on Bento to the rest of the Lab’s SL staff and senior management, all of whom where very excited about the project. During the Bento meeting, Troy again offered thanks to all who have contributed to the project and who are endeavouring to make Bento a success.
Updates and Bugs
As Vir has been on vacation, there have been no further updates to the viewer since the release over version 5.0.0.317597, which the Lab hopes marks the end of updates to the enhanced skeleton and the revised appearance sliders (although obviously, the viewer will continue through project/RC releases to a final release down the road). However, a number of bugs have been reported against this update, with discussion on the forum thread on whether the problems lay within the Bento updates or elsewhere.
One of these, BUG-37546, relates to facial bone joint offset issues, which I’ve reported upon on previous Bento updates, and which can cause the collapse /deformation of any face using custom offsets as soon as it is worn, or in the view of anyone else seeing it for the first time, with both issues requiring the wearer to play an animation against the offsets in the facial bones will witness an immediate collapse / deformation of the face until such time as the wearer runs the animation against their face.
Teager offers this example of the facial problem – note the horse’s collapsed nostrils, the drawn back lower jaws and the teeth protruding through the lips – all issues which have appeared in the 5.0.0.317597 viewer update
Teager has been experimenting with the issue at length in an attempt to try to isolate possible causes. In doing so she has identified that this deformation can occur whether the mesh is weighted or not, and it doesn’t seem to be related to the facial appearance sliders or any conflicts caused by adjusting them.
Gaia Clary has also been looking into the problem, and may have come across a partial cause of why things like the lower jaw are getting “pulled back” into the face when seen in the viewer. As she explains in the Bento forum thread subsequent to the meeting:
The exported Collada files do not contain information about where the bone ends are. In the SL Viewer the joints and the corresponding bone ends are just shifted to the offset location. So for bones which have no connected children the “bone” rotation never changes in the SL viewer.
But the most important news is: it does not matter how the end point bones are “rotated”. And this is because apparently all scaling happens relative to the Avatar’s coordinate system.
There will doubtless be further follow-up on this at the next meeting.
Height Offset Issues
There was further discussion on the height offset issues which are being encountered – see BUG-20013 and more recently BUG-20169 for details). This again came up for discussion, particularly the issue Aki has encountered with animations no longer functioning as expressed, as in the case of her wyvern’s hind legs (rigged using the new hind leg bones) no longer flexing correctly.
Before the update: Aki’s wyvern flexes its legs to move gently up-and-down, which is the expected behaviour
After the update: as an animation is acting on some of the bones used in calculating the wyvern’s position relative to the ground, its impact is added to the avatar’s overall position calculation, causing the entire avatar to move up and down as the height position is constantly recalculated
Vir notes that there are a number of potential causes, as previously discussed in these updates. One suggestion to try to improve things is to dial down the frequency with which the height calculation is performed (it is now being carried out more-or-less continuously), but there’s no absolute guarantee this would eliminate issues.
Part of the problem could be in the manner in which an avatar’s position relative to the ground is calculated (using a chain of bones up the left leg and then through the pelvis to the head). This has seen issues even before Bento, which has perhaps exacerbated the problem as a result of it more directly supporting quadruped / non-bipedal avatars. The problem here is that any changes to how an avatar’s height position is calculated could do more harm than good for existing avatars.
A further exacerbation with the issue is that “old” methods of fixing issues (removing / wearing a shape / avatar, etc.), no longer appear to be consistent or persistent, and a reliance on the Avatar Hover Height also isn’t always consistent (e.g. wear a shape / shoe base, etc, set hover height, then replace items and re-wear without altering Hover Height, and avatar’s height appears odd again).
Vir, Cathy Foil, Teager, and Medhue Simoni further discuss the avatar height position issue
Other Items
Updating Skeletons in AvaStar
There was some discussion / clarification on updating the skeleton in AvaStar between version (e.g. AvaStar 2 Alpha 4 to AvaStar 2 Alpha 5), and some of the problems noted with it.
Medhue Simoni, Matrice Laville and Aki Shichiroji discuss updating the skeleton in AvaStar.
Shape Update Issues
Some people have seen problems with the current (5.0.0.317597) version of the Bento viewer whereby when updating their shape others on the Bento viewer are not seeing their shape update correctly until they relog. This appears to be a baking issue, possibly the result of the Bento viewer currently not having the most recent baking service updates.
Bento Test Models
It appears the models on the Bento test page and referenced in the forum thread are not complete; then will hopefully be updated in the near future (check the dates against the models on the test page). The new models, once available should include support for all the Bento bones and (hopefully) fitted mesh support as well.
The was no Main (SLS) channel deployment on Tuesday, August 2nd as had been anticipated. Instead a further update to the existing RC server maintenance package was made to all three RC channels on Wednesday August 3rd. This update included a fix for BUG-37573 “Rez silently fails on RC Magnum, RC LeTigre and RC BlueSteel regions”.
SL Viewer
The Visual Outfits Browser viewer was promoted to release candidate status on Monday, August 1st, with the release of version 4.0.7.318263. This update includes further fixes listed as:
MAINT-6476 VOB – User can add any size image to an Outfit Gallery outfit folders
MAINT-6583 [VOB] Snapshot floater is stuck in “Posting” state.
MAINT-6601 [VOB] Texture picker generates WARNING spam in SecondLife.log.
All other viewers remain unchanged since my last projects update:
Current Release version: 4.0.6.315555 (dated May 23rd), promoted July 5th – formerly the Inventory Message RC viewer
RC viewers:
VLC Media Plugin RC viewer, version 4.1.1.318152, dated July 28th – replaces the QuickTime media plugin for the Windows version of the viewer with one based on LibVLC
Maintenance RC viewer, version 4.0.7.318189, dated July 28th – fixes and updates
Project viewers:
Project Bento (avatar skeleton extensions), version 5.0.0.317597, dated July 14th – incorporation of final skeleton and slider updates from the test viewer
Obsolete platform viewer, version 3.7.28.300847 dated May 8th, 2015 – provided for users on Windows XP and OS X versions below 10.7.
Some of the notes in this update are taken from the TPV Developer meeting held on Friday, July 29th. The video of that meeting is embedded at the end of this update. My thanks as always to North for recording and providing it.
Server Deployments – Recap
There was no deployment to the Main (SLS) channel on Tuesday, July 26th.
A new server maintenance package was deployed to all three RC channels on Thursday, July 27th, which comprised “minor internal logging changes”
It’s liable that this update will be promoted to the Main (SLS) channel in week #31 (commencing Monday, August 1st). However, we’re liable to be in a quiescent period, sever-wise for a while, doubtless in part due to it being vacation season.
SL Viewer
The Maintenance RC viewer updated to version 4.0.7.318189 on Thursday July 28th. This release includes an update to prevent the viewer using the deleted LLEventPollImpl upon rapid teleports. This is now the most likely candidate for promotion to release status, assuming no significant issues are found with this latest RC.
Thursday, July 28th also saw the VLC Media Plugin viewer achieve Release Candidate status with the release of version 4.1.1.318152. This viewer replaces the QuickTime media plugin for the Windows version of the viewer with one based on LibVLC. The RC release brings with it several additional fixes:
MAINT-6481 [Win LibVLC] MOAP mp4 mp3 playback missing video controls
MAINT-6502 [Win LibVLC] some .mov files play in LibVLC windows viewer
MAINT-6503 [Win LibVLC] some media file types prompt to download instead of play
MAINT-6527 [Win LibVLC] viewer plays MOAP video at maximum volume 50m away
MAINT-6577 [Win LibVLC] No sound in MOAP or browser video
MAINT-6578 [Win/Linux LibVLC] When media is enabled, many other textures in the scene get flipped upside down.
This viewer current has “very, very very” few users on it, thanks to the focus on the Maintenance viewer RC, although this should now start to change. It has apparently worked well as a project viewer, and would seem likely for promotion some time after the Maintenance RC and ahead of anything else which has yet to make it to RC status.
All other viewer remain unchanged thus far in the week:
Current Release version: 4.0.6.315555 (dated May 23rd), promoted July 5th – formerly the Inventory Message RC viewer
Project viewers:
Project Bento (avatar skeleton extensions), version 5.0.0.317597, dated July 14th – incorporation of final skeleton and slider updates from the test viewer
Visual Outfit Browser viewer, version 4.0.6.316422, dated July 1st – ability to preview images of outfits in the Appearance floater – a further update to this viewer (possibly an RC release) had been expected, but it is currently awaiting a further fix for a bug discovered by the Lab’s QA team
Obsolete platform viewer, version 3.7.28.300847 dated May 8th, 2015 – provided for users on Windows XP and OS X versions below 10.7.
Upcoming Viewers
There is no set time frame for this, but the following viewers should have project version appearing in the future:
The 64-bit Windows and Mac versions of the viewer. There is no working version of this viewer at present, and while the developers working on it are keen to see it running, it does not share the same priority as various other viewer-related activities at this point in time, delaying it from reaching project viewer status – something which will change once wthe viewer does get a project release
A further Maintenance viewer with updates and fixes
The new Voice viewer update, which is part of a series of changes being made the voice service by both the Lab and Vivox (see my last TPVD report). This viewer should be backward compatible on Mac and Windows, allowing TPVs to adopt it, and will include a new codec which should improve Voice quality for those using the update. This update may include some additional code for monitoring connections issues and failures, so the Lab can gather more informed statistics on these issues, although determining root causes for them is difficult, given the complexities of the connections between viewer, simulator and voice servers.
Project Bento
Vir is still on holiday, and will return on August 4th. Until then, the project is on a holding pattern, with time being taken to test the new skeleton updates and for AvaStar and MayaStar to complete their updates.
A further viewer update is expected, but not until after Vir has returned. A bug has been filed against jaw bone issues resulting from the most recent set of updates (see BUG-37546), and general feedback on the new skeleton continues to be made via the forum thread. Expect in-depth reports to resume from week #31.
Other Items
Presenting Inventory in the Viewer
During the July 29th TPV developer meeting, Oz indicated that if any developers who have ideas for presenting inventory in a more usable, user-friendly manner within the viewer, the Lab would be “more than happy to take a look at it”, acknowledging that the current method of presentation isn’t the most user-friendly.
On Tuesday, July 19th the server maintenance package previously deployed to all three RC was rolled-out to the Main (SLS) channel,described as “minor internal changes”. One of these sees worn scripts capped at a count of 2500. Attempts to add attachments which take an avatar over this limit should result in the attachments failing to wear
There no deployment and no scheduled restart for the RC channels on Wednesday, July 20th, so the entire grid is running on the same simulator release
SL Viewer
The Maintenance RC viewer updated to version 4.0.7.317689 on July 21st, which includes the following additional fixes:
MAINT-6448PERMISSION_DEBIT notification should default to Deny (my emphasis)
MAINT-6534 [MAINT-RC] Resetting scripts via the build menu no longer works on many scripted objects unless making the scripts visible in the contents tab of the objects first
STORM-2133 VOICE-36 prevents proper shut-down of connector.
The old debit notification (left) gave equal emphasis to accepting / denying the request to access account balances. The update to the Maintenance RC viewer new focus attention on denying a request for account access as the default option.
Project Bento
The following notes and audio were taken from the weekly Bento User Group meeting, held on Thursday, July 21st at 13:00 SLT at the the Hippotropolis Campfire Circle. For details on the meeting agenda, please refer to the Bento User Group wiki page.
Note that this meeting was an “informal” meeting as project development lead Vir Linden is on vacation, as is Dan Linden, another of the devs who has been working on Bento. On-hand for the meeting were Troy, Coyot and Kyle Linden. These notes are not intended to offer a full transcript of the meeting, but rather covers the key topics of the discussion. Extraneous sounds in the audio are the result of someone leaving their microphone open during the meeting.
Internal Bento Presentation at the Lab
There’s an “SL summit” taking place in week #30 (commencing Monday, July 25th) within the Lab, at which Bento will again be presented. Troy Linden will be doing this, using screen shots and information on the recent work, and updating LL staff on the project’s process and on the ongoing collaboration between the Lab and Bento content creators.
Final Skeleton and Issues / Testing
With the release of the latest project viewer (version 5.0.0.317597 at the time of writing), the Lab hopes the Bento skeleton is now finalised. However, there are still a range of issues which are still being seen, some of which may be related to the most recent updates to the skeleton and sliders, others of which relate to earlier versions of the skeleton. There is also a further level of confusion due the AvaStar having to make a series of changes to their tool set, and these also being in a state of flux (version 2.0.13 (Alpha 4) was, at the time of writing the most up-to-date version, which should handle the new updates, although the .BVH animations handling may still be awaiting update). All of this means that most creators have yet to really experiment and test the latest updates.
Troy’s suggestion is that as 5.0.0.317597 does contain the must recent version of the skeleton and sliders, that creators work with models built with this skeleton, and report issues directly against it, to help ensure the Lab is correctly catching everything.
Avatar Reset / Reset Skeleton Option
In theory, removing an avatar mesh using custom joint offsets should reset the underlying avatar. However, this isn’t always the case.
For example, if the animations running on the mesh contain translations, and the last frame of those animations doesn’t move the bones back into their starting position, then an automatic reset of the avatar won’t occur. It is also possible that the update message may not be received by other viewers (e.g. due to Interest List limitations). These problems (which actually pre-date Bento) is why the Reset Skeleton option was added to the Bento viewer.
This prompted a discussion on the impact of sliders / bone rotations / translations and the order in which shapes / joint positions / animations are applied to an avatar, which in testing appear to be at odds with the order of application provided by Vir. Understanding what exactly is going on is again made a little harder, as it is believed there are still some disconnects between updates to the SL skeleton rig and updates made to Avastar.
Medue Simoni, Teager and Mel Vanbeeck discuss sliders, bone rotations / translations, and their impact on an avatar
Medhue Teager and Mel discuss the order in which joint offsets, shape offsets and sliders are applied to an avatar, in reference to Vir’s forum post on the matter
Expect further discussion on this following additional testing.
Brief Summary of Additional Observations
Avatar Height: his has been the topic of conversation for the last few meetings. In particular see my Bento update #19 for details of the current issues arising from the most recent changes in how an avatar’s position relative to the ground is calculated / re-calculated by the viewer.
Vir has suggested that, as a part of investigations, people try to avoid changing the position of any of the bones used in the position calculation via an animation, and instead change the rotation of the bone(s) to achieve the desired result. Initial feedback voice at this meeting (via chat) is that this many not be an ideal solution.
Speech Gestures: A long-standing aspect of Second Life is that speech gestures (along with gesture in general) are not automatically attached / detached with an avatar. This makes sense in that it allows people to choose the gestures they wish to run with an avatar.
However, with Bento, it is possible that dedicated gestures are required (e.g. wing folding gestures, speech gestures that are specific to an avatar form, etc.). As the gestures are not auto-attached / detached this leaves the potential for users experiencing apparent “issues” (e.g. their avatar seems to behave oddly as something like a speech gesture fail to play, or there is a conflict with gestures as the user has multiple gestures trying to do the same thing running simultaneously, etc.). It’s not clear what (if anything) might be done to address this.
Why Bento is Taking so “Long”
There have been some complaints in forum threads and non-Bento user group meetings about the length of time Bento is taking to mature. However, as Troy re-iterated in the meeting, a lot of this is both down to the fact that Bento needs to serve a very wide range of use-cases, not all of which are necessarily compatible with one another (e.g. supporting both human and non-human avatars).
Additionally, and in order to be as broadly useful as possible, the project requires an iterative development process between both the Lab and the expertise of in-world content creators in order to ensure Bento is as useful a product as possible when officially launched. This iterative process inevitably means the project will take time to fully mature.
Troy and Coyot Linden discuss the overall approach to Bento
On Tuesday, July 19th the server maintenance package previously deployed to all three RC was rolled-out to the Main (SLS) channel,described as “minor internal changes”. One of these sees worn scripts capped at a count of 2500. Attempts to add attachments which take an avatar over this limit should result in the attachments failing to wear.
Immediately following this deployment, there were some reports of local caps failures following region restarts. However, most of these now appear to have been corrected.
There no deployment and no scheduled restart for the RC channels planned for Wednesday, July 20th, so the entire grid should remain on the same simulator release through until Wednesday, July 27th, when a new RC deployment is due.
Viewer Updates
There have been no further viewer updates since my last SL project update, leaving the list as:
Current Release version: 4.0.6.315555 (dated May 23rd), promoted July 5th – formerly the Inventory Message RC viewer download page, release notes
RC viewer:
Maintenance RC viewer, version 4.0.7.317394, dated on July 8th – fixes and updates.
Project viewers:
Project Bento (avatar skeleton extensions), version 5.0.0.317597, dated July 14th – incorporation of final skeleton and slider updates from the test viewer (download and release notes)
Visual Outfit Browser viewer, version 4.0.6.316422, dated July 1st – ability to preview images of outfits in the Appearance floater
Project VLC Media Plugin Viewer, version 4.0.6.316258, dated June 15th – replaces the QuickTime media plugin for the Windows viewer with one based on LibVLC
Obsolete platform viewer, version 3.7.28.300847 dated May 8th, 2015 – provided for users on Windows XP and OS X versions below 10.7.
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