Category: SL Tech

2025 week #5: SL SUG meeting summary (2K BoM update)

Posted on by Inara Pey
Luane’s World – Le Monde Perdu, December 2024 – blog post

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

  • On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
  • On Wednesday, January 29th, 2025 the RC channels will be restarted, most likely without any deployment.
    • It had been hoped that Banana Bread, the next simulator update, would be deployed to the BlueSteel channel; however, this is likely to be held over until next week due to a late-break issues.

SL Viewer Updates

  • Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
  • Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12935708795, January 24, 2025.
    • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

2K Bakes on Mesh Update

We have some exciting news regarding 2k bake — it’s no longer blocked, and we are in the process of scheduling a deploy. We anticipate this making its way to Agni within the next few weeks (ideally sooner than later), hopefully at the next SUG I’ll have a specific date.

– Pepper Linden

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

  • Rider Linden noted that he is not yet in a position to work  on Combat 2.1 (see the Proposal specification + feedback).
  • There was a question concerning the surfacing of llSetAgentRot. Leviathan Linden responded:
Viewer feature development is basically blocked right now. The viewer dev team is focused on FPS improvements. Meanwhile, there has been some pileup of viewer features in the develop branch, but a few months of work there is not included in ForeverFPS [the current RC viewer] viewer. The ForeverFPS viewer project does not want to pull in all of the pileup of changes in develop: they don’t want to destabilize the FPS improvements they are working on.
  • Leviathan further indicated his viewer-side Game control work is similarly held-up, which led to a conversation on getting the capability out in some form.
  • Rider Linden hinted that there is “exciting news” in the Lua(u) scripting project “on the horizon”.
  • A discussion on this forum thread, outlining some of what is seen as SL’s major technical issues. Leviathan Linden re-iterated he’s working on one of these issues: that of slow loading on avatars and in-world objects on log-in / following a teleport.
  • A discussion on possible issues about linkset messaging and linkset data.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

Lab adds SL Mobile User Group to in-world meetings

Posted on by Inara Pey
Campwich Forest grounds: location for the Monthly Mobile User Group (MMUG)

In response to various requests, Linden Lab has announced that a new in-world user group meeting is to launch at the end of January 2025.

The announcement of the Mobile Monthly User Group (MMUG) was made (oddly) via a Feedback portal post by Bridie Linden (have Linden Lab completely given up using their own blogs to make announcement?), who noted:

We will be using WebRTC Voice and text to share updates and listen to feedback. Use the Second Life desktop viewer or Second Life Mobile to join the conversation. We look forward to seeing you there!

– Bridie Linden

The meetings will take place as follows:

  • Last Thursday every month, commencing Thursday, January 30th, 2025.
  • Time: 12:00 noon SLT.
  • Location: Campwich Forest.

The new meeting brings the current total of Second Life active user group meetings to seven (with the Governance user group currently on hiatus). The other active meetings are:

  • The Simulator User Group:
    • Purpose: to discuss simulator issues and technology.
    • Frequency and time: weekly, every Tuesday, 12:00 noon SLT
    • Location: Simon Linden’s place, Denby.
    • Format: text (local chat)
  • Sill Gaming:
    • Purpose: to discuss anything pertaining to the Skill Gaming Programme. How to be part of the SLSG Programme, questions about processes, and any known issues or concerns.
    • Frequency and time: generally, the 2nd Tuesday of the month, 11:00 SLT.
    • Location: Gaming Island.
    • Format: text / Voice.
  • Content Creation User Group:
    • Purpose: to discuss of SL content creation.
    • Frequency and time: generally, alternate Thursdays, 13:00 SLT.
    • Location: Hippotropolis Camp Site.
    • Format: Text / Voice.
  • Open Source Development:
    • Purpose: to discuss SL development, including open source contributions.
    • Frequency and time:  every 4th Wednesday, 07:00 SLT.
    • Location: Hippotropolis Camp Site.
    • Format: text.
  • Land and Support:
    • Purpose: discussion of topics related to land and Mainland issues.
    • Frequency and time: every 4th Wednesday, 12:00 noon SLT.
    • Location: Linden Estate Services.
    • Format: text / Voice
  • Web User Group:
    • Purpose: discussion of Web properties such as Marketplace, Profiles, Place Pages, Search, etc.
    • Frequency and time: generally every first Wednesday of the month, 14:00 SLT.
    • Location: Alexa Linden’s Barn.
    • Format: text / Voice.

To keep abreast of all meeting, please refer to the SL public calendar:

 

As a reminder, I attempt to provide summaries of as many meetings as I can attend, and Pantera Północy provide videos of the meeting she attends on her You Tube channel.

 

2025 SL viewer release summaries week #4

Posted on by Inara Pey
Logos representative only and should not be seen as an endorsement / preference / recommendation

Updates from the week through to Sunday, January 26th, 2025

This summary is generally published every Monday, and is a list of SL viewer / client releases (official and TPV) made during the previous week. When reading it, please note:

  • It is based on my Current Viewer Releases Page, a list of all Second Life viewers and clients that are in popular use (and of which I am aware), and which are recognised as adhering to the TPV Policy. This page includes comprehensive links to download pages, blog notes, release notes, etc., as well as links to any / all reviews of specific viewers / clients made within this blog.
  • By its nature, this summary presented here will always be in arrears, please refer to the Current Viewer Release Page for more up-to-date information.
  • Note that for purposes of length, TPV test viewers, preview / beta viewers / nightly builds are generally not recorded in these summaries.

Official LL Viewers

  • Release viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226. formerly the ExtraFPS RC, dated December 17, promoted December 19 – No change.
  • Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12935708795, January 24, 2025.
    • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

LL Viewer Resources

Third-party Viewers

V7-style

  • Alchemy – 7.1.9.2516 (Beta WebRTC build) January 20, 2025 – release notes.

V1-style

  • Cool VL Viewer Stable: 1.32.2.32, January 25, 2025 – release notes.

Mobile / Other Clients

  • No updates.

Additional TPV Resources

Related Links

2025 week #4: SL SUG meeting summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Sweet Surrender, November 2024 – blog post

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday,  January 21st, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

  • On Tuesday, January 21st, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
  • On Wednesday, January 22nd, 2025 the RC channels will be restarted.
  • Banana Bread, the next simulator update will be likely be deployed to Aditi for testing.

SL Viewer Updates

  • Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
  • Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12793544240, January 17, 2025.
    • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

  • Leviathan Linden is due to resume work on the problem where content doesn’t always show up on first login/teleport arrival after being asked to look into a couple of other issues. His initial investigations have indicated that the problem is most likely simulator-side, be he’s still digging into the exact cause.
  • 2K Bakes on Mesh:
    • Pepper Linden confirmed the simulator updates have been approved by QA.
    • Pepper also confirmed the viewer update is related to a problem found within the texture pipeline of ExtraFPS using too much VRAM (see this Canny issue report). This fix is due to go into the Lab’s ForeverFPS viewer update, and LL would like Firestorm to include it in a release before switching on 2K BoM.
  • There is some confusion as to the status of the glTF scene import project in the wake of Runitai Linden’s departure from LL.
    • Runitai got as far as prototyping the capability on Aditi, but it was not tied into the physical engine.
    • As has been mentioned numerous times, the majority of the focus within the graphics / viewer teams has been on improving overall viewer performance and is currently geared towards assisting Firestorm deal with blocker to their ExtraFPS release.
  • The above led to a discussion on the value of including some form of 3D mesh editing tool in the viewer. Unsurprisingly. These discussions saw a range of viewpoints expressed.
  • Leviathan Linden intimated that the viewer-side work for his game controller updates (which are available server-side) is also pending on resources within the viewer team becoming available in order to make the game control options more easily accessible (e.g. with the official viewer, it has to be unlocked via the Advanced menu).
  • A discussion on properly-supported “walking / running backwards” animations states.
  • It was suggested that the server-side Luau work (scripting) could be deployed to Aditi “in the next few months (possibly)” to allow scripters to poke at it while it is still in development.
  • Requests for additions to the official viewer, including RLV (RLV/a has been contributed by Kitty Barnett for inclusion in the official viewer, but the status of the work in doing so is unclear – it’s a significant piece of work).
  • A reminder that Monty Linden is working to correct defects within EventQueueGet (a simulator Capability that delivers messages from a simulator to viewers over HTTP using a long-poll scheme. It is core functionality without which viewer/simulator coordination is impossible), and is seeking feedback  – see here for both defects, proposals to resolve and how to test.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

2025 SL viewer release summaries week #3

Posted on by Inara Pey
Logos representative only and should not be seen as an endorsement / preference / recommendation

Updates from the week through to Sunday, January 19th, 2025

This summary is generally published every Monday, and is a list of SL viewer / client releases (official and TPV) made during the previous week. When reading it, please note:

  • It is based on my Current Viewer Releases Page, a list of all Second Life viewers and clients that are in popular use (and of which I am aware), and which are recognised as adhering to the TPV Policy. This page includes comprehensive links to download pages, blog notes, release notes, etc., as well as links to any / all reviews of specific viewers / clients made within this blog.
  • By its nature, this summary presented here will always be in arrears, please refer to the Current Viewer Release Page for more up-to-date information.
  • Note that for purposes of length, TPV test viewers, preview / beta viewers / nightly builds are generally not recorded in these summaries.

Official LL Viewers

  • Release viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226. formerly the ExtraFPS RC, dated December 17, promoted December 19 – No change.
  • Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12793544240, January 17, 2025.
    • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

LL Viewer Resources

Third-party Viewers

V7-style

  • No updates.

V1-style

  • No Updates.

Mobile / Other Clients

  • Radegast client version 2.44, January 19, 2025 – release notes
  • SL Mobile (Beta) version 2025.01.538 / 0.1.530 – UI improvements – January 14, 2025.

Additional TPV Resources

Related Links

2025 week #3: SL TPVD meeting summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Simurg + Winter Valley, November 2024 – blog post †

The following notes were taken from my audio recording + the video recording by Pantera (embedded at the end of this summary) of the Third-Party Developer meeting (TPVD) held on Friday, January 17th, 2025. My thanks to Pantera as always for providing it.

Meeting Purpose

  • The TPV Developer meeting provides an opportunity for discussion about the development of, and features for, the Second Life viewer, and for Linden Lab viewer developers and third-party viewer (TPV) / open-source code contributors to discuss general viewer development. This meeting is held once a month on a Friday, at 13:00 SLT at the Hippotropolis Theatre.
  • Dates and times are recorded in the SL Public Calendar, and they re conducted in a mix of Voice and text chat.
  • The notes herein are a summary of topics discussed and are not intended to be a full transcript of the meeting.

Official Viewers Status

[Video: 1:13-2:17 and [4:07-4:45]

  • Release viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
  • Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12793544240, January 17, 2025.
    • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

Upcoming Viewers

  • ForeverFPS surfaced somewhat faster as an RC viewer than had been anticipated at the CCUG meeting.
  • Other plans for viewer updates are under review; there a numerous code commits in the Develop branch awaiting a viewer, but collectively, they are regarded as to many to all go into a single viewer update, so the order of release over several viewer updates needs to be determined.

WebRTC / Updating to Viewers with WebRTC Support / Rendering Holdbacks

[Video: 5:22-24:14]

  • Further re-iteration of the desire to see as many users as possible to move from viewers which lack WebRTC support (e.g. Firestorm 6.6.17) to those (predominantly PBR-based) viewers with the WebRTC support, so that the Vivox service can be turned off across the grid.
  • A further request was made as to why people are resistant.
    • Once again, the response was largely around the quality of the reflections / general look of the Linden Water plane on PBR viewers, lack of exclusion volumes for water; darker ambient tones to natural lighting.
    • Ambient issues, particularly with legacy EEP skies should have been largely corrected in ExtraFPS.
    • It was also pointed out that there are cohorts of users who are happy with what works for them, even if half their in-world view seems to be “broken” in some manner, and simply will not update as long as the viewer they use can still access SL.
  • A particular issue here with regards to WebRTC, is that while a high percentage of users are not updating to viewers with PBR + WebRTC support, it is not clear how many would be adversely affected by the loss of Vivox voice, given that many in SL rarely, if ever use Voice.  If the number is small, turning off Vivox might not be an issue; if the number is large, it could cause people to abandon SL.
  • It was also suggested that wider communications from LL (and TPVs) on the nature of upcoming changes like WebRTC might help to make users more aware of what is going on.
  • In response to exclusion volumes and water quality  / reflections, Geenz Linden noted:
    • There might be a way to provide exclusion volumes for water (e.g. to prevent water rendering inside boat hulls, etc.), but the issue is complicated.
    •  There has been a regression in the way water appears and generates reflections; part of this was the result of the “pre-PBR” means of rendering water required multiple passes, which became a performance issue. However, improving water is on his list of things to do, and he hopes that some of the ideas he has will also help improve screen space reflections (SSR) .
    • However, he also indicated that bring back “full real-time reflections” on water  is a not insignificant ask, and will likely only be possible after the moiré system has been further optimised, as  reflection generation will likely piggyback off of that. As such, the work to recover water reflections will take time and will be iterative in nature, and there may be impacts on the general appearance of water.
  • Commenting on SSR, Geenz also noted that while improvements can be made, it will be “really hard” to return SSR quality to pre-PBR – but then, pre-PBR SSR had its own performance issues. As such, work in this area requires careful consideration on how to make improvements without impacting performance.

In Brief

  • [Video: 2:17-4:07] A further announcement on the departure of Runitai Linden (see: Runitai Linden departs LL for public service).
  • [Video: 24:14-29:30] General discussion / opinions on how and where to present assorted graphical settings and options within the Preferences / debugs, and how users understand / learn about the viewer’s internals.
  • [Video 30:16-32:25] Discussion on graphics and lighting – improving HDRi rendering, ambient like, introducing punctual lighting, using physical units for lighting.
  • [Video: 37:14-43:40] EventQueueGet is a simulator Capability that delivers messages from a simulator to viewers over HTTP using a long-poll scheme. It is core functionality without which viewer/simulator coordination is impossible. However, a number of defects in the design and maintenance of this capability have been found (see here for both defects and proposals to resolve).
    • Monty Linden  has implemented a “phase 1” project to address some of these issues, and has set-up a channel of several regions on Aditi (the Beta grid) for public testing of the changes to validate that they do not in fact break anything. He has also published information on how users can help with the test and what is involved in the “phase 1” work.
    • During the meeting, he requested that people take the time to visit the test regions, carry out TPs and physical crossing between regions, leaving suitably scripted objects running on the regions, etc., per the testing information forum topic and report back via the topic or via the Feedback Portal.
    • This work may become part of the Banana Bread simulator release (still in the process of being defined), and further references to the work will most likely be via the Simulator User Group meetings.
  • User groups for discussing Project Zero / SL Mobile:
    • The Project Zero viewer-in-a-browser project is open for discussion at the Web User Group (as Sntax Linden leads both the WUG group and Project Zero); and it has been indicated it might spin-up its own user group in time.
    • There are internal discussions going on in the Lab about starting a SL Mobile User Group. More to follow on this.

Next Meeting

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a gathering of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.