Category: Simulator User Group

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday,  January 21st, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, January 21st, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, January 22nd, 2025 the RC channels will be restarted.
• Banana Bread, the next simulator update will be likely be deployed to Aditi for testing.

SL Viewer Updates

• Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12793544240, January 17, 2025.
  • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• Leviathan Linden is due to resume work on the problem where content doesn’t always show up on first login/teleport arrival after being asked to look into a couple of other issues. His initial investigations have indicated that the problem is most likely simulator-side, be he’s still digging into the exact cause.
• 2K Bakes on Mesh:
  • Pepper Linden confirmed the simulator updates have been approved by QA.
  • Pepper also confirmed the viewer update is related to a problem found within the texture pipeline of ExtraFPS using too much VRAM (see this Canny issue report). This fix is due to go into the Lab’s ForeverFPS viewer update, and LL would like Firestorm to include it in a release before switching on 2K BoM.
• There is some confusion as to the status of the glTF scene import project in the wake of Runitai Linden’s departure from LL.
  • Runitai got as far as prototyping the capability on Aditi, but it was not tied into the physical engine.
  • As has been mentioned numerous times, the majority of the focus within the graphics / viewer teams has been on improving overall viewer performance and is currently geared towards assisting Firestorm deal with blocker to their ExtraFPS release.
• The above led to a discussion on the value of including some form of 3D mesh editing tool in the viewer. Unsurprisingly. These discussions saw a range of viewpoints expressed.
• Leviathan Linden intimated that the viewer-side work for his game controller updates (which are available server-side) is also pending on resources within the viewer team becoming available in order to make the game control options more easily accessible (e.g. with the official viewer, it has to be unlocked via the Advanced menu).
• A discussion on properly-supported “walking / running backwards” animations states.
• It was suggested that the server-side Luau work (scripting) could be deployed to Aditi “in the next few months (possibly)” to allow scripters to poke at it while it is still in development.
• Requests for additions to the official viewer, including RLV (RLV/a has been contributed by Kitty Barnett for inclusion in the official viewer, but the status of the work in doing so is unclear – it’s a significant piece of work).
• A reminder that Monty Linden is working to correct defects within EventQueueGet (a simulator Capability that delivers messages from a simulator to viewers over HTTP using a long-poll scheme. It is core functionality without which viewer/simulator coordination is impossible), and is seeking feedback  – see here for both defects, proposals to resolve and how to test.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday,  January 14th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, January 15th, all remaining RC channel outside of BlueSteel should be updated with the Apple Cobbler simulator update, which includes llGetAttachedListFiltered(),llGiveAgentInventory(),llMapBeacon(),llTransferOwnership(), and a modification to llModPow, so it should work faster (however, it does not correctly handle the full range of positive 31-bit integers -and Leviathan Linden is working to define the range for which it supplies correct answers, so check the wiki page for updates).

SL Viewer Updates

• Release viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: none at present.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• Rider Linden:

 I have an internal change dealing with how the simulator makes outgoing HTTP calls. It’s just a proof of concept and changes how a few things at start-up are handled, residents shouldn’t see any differences. As that expands further in the future, I’ll start calling out things that people should be paying attention to.

• Leviathan Linden:

Just a status update on what I’m working on: I’ve been trying to come up with a reliable repro for the “sometimes objects don’t show up upon login/teleport arrival — in order for them to show up you need to do a relog” problem. Although I don’t have a reliable repro for it I’ve verified it is a real server-side bug and have some ideas to try out. I got side-tracked on something but will get back to working on that later today.

• A request was made on whether there could be a way for an Experience owner to see the data stored (e.g. as two-column spreadsheet) and without having to query the whole thing a few keys at a time. This led to a general discussion on now this might be achieved, with Monty Linden adding:

 KVP things are something we have to look at again in the future – if people have wants, now is a good time to start asking … if something’s needed, can add it to the stew pot.

• The above led to a broader discussion on scripting – a viewer UI for LSD / status on the Luau project for the viewer (unclear, as Signal Linden had to depart the meeting before replying); the potential for a llLinkSetData equivalent on avatars (seen as unwise because of some of the potentials it might present – such as allowing a script to put “cookies” on avatars), data storage, touched on this Canny request, and circled back to user-supplied grid-wide experiences. This discussion ran through most of the rest of the meeting.
• The question was asked whether it would be possible to have llGetObjectDetails respect parcel privacy settings, whereby if an object that isn’t on the parcel you are standing on has Avatars On Other Parcels Can See and Chat with Avatars on This Parcel toggled off, it won’t be able to get a list of your attachments – notably as a form of protection against data-gathering bots. Rider Linden requested a Canny feature request on this.
• A discussion on llDerezObject.
• Leviathan Linden suggested that a merge of 2k BOM has passed a QA review; however, as Pepper Linden was not available at the meeting to confirm overall status.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday,  January 7th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, January 7th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, January 8th:
  • The BlueSteel RC should be updated with the Apple Cobbler simulator update, which includes: llGetAttachedListFiltered(),llGiveAgentInventory(),llMapBeacon(),llTransferOwnership(), and a modification to llModPow, so it should work faster (however, it does not correctly handle the full range of positive 31-bit integers -and Leviathan Linden is working to define the range for which it supplies correct answers, so check the wiki page for updates).
  • The remaining simulators on the RC channels are to be restarted without any update.

SL Viewer Updates

• Release viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
• Release Candidate: none at present.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• A discussion on llSetAgentRot and extending it, with Rider Linden noting:

I left the API open to be able to use any rot. Unfortunately there are a lot of assumptions in both the simulator and the viewer about the agent only rotating around Z. Changing that is going to be a much larger project.

• Questions were asked on improving the quality of Linden Water effects and reflections. Such questions are best dealt with via the Content Creation User Group (summaries here).
• An intertwined discussion with the above about Linden Water and swimming options.
• There have been requests for a llSetObjectMass() function. Whilst this doesn’t currently exist, this SL wiki page has been created to provide a (hopefully) equitable capability, with Leviathan Linden noting:

Vehicle developers were asking for an llSetMass() method so they could standardize the mass of the vehicle after the agent had sat down. It turns out that LSL function is not necessary, there is a way to do it with existing LSL functionality, but it is a little tricky for multi-prim objects.

• A further discussion on improving vehicle interaction with parcel bans – something LL is hoping to address – such as the potential for putting banline information on the mini-map, with other suggestions being put forward.
  • This led to a broad discussion on issues of parcel privacy and access, security and forced teleporting of unwanted visitors.
• Requests have been made to modify Experience permissions so that creators can set them to “only this time” or “work like phone apps“. This led to a discussion on Experiences  and the format of the permissions dialogue, etc.

 

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, December 17th, 2024 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, December 17th, 2024, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, December 18th, the servers on the RC channels should be restarted without any deployments being made.

With the holiday period starting in a week, the engineering team will be making a call in the next day or so on whether to run re-starts over the holiday period or not.

SL Viewer Updates

• Release viewer: version 7.1.10.10800445603, formerly the DeltaFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, etc), dated September 11, promoted September 17 – No change.
• Release Candidate: ExtraFPS RC, version 7.1.11.12363455226, December 17.
  • Performance improvements: enhanced texture memory tracking, broader hardware compatibility and higher FPS gain;  additional code to improve texture streaming on rigged attachments (e.g. if an earring is made with 2K textures, the viewer will correctly calculate the required resolution for the textures and download them, rather than downloading the full 2K textures), etc.
  • Aesthetics improvements: new Antialiasing setting – SMAA; Contrast Adaptive Sharpening; Khronos Neutral Tone Mapping (can be changed to ACES via the RenderTonemapType Debug setting).
  • UI Optimisations.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• A discussion on llGetObjectDetails, together with llGOD() or using a rezzer to check for an object’s presence, and potential confusion which can potentially arise, and the potential benefit in using llGetOwnerKey.
  • This sparked ideas for additional functions / parameter for check on objects with regions / parcels – e.g.: llDoesExist() with parameters IN_REGION, IN_PARCEL and IN_OWNERS_PARCEL.
• A request was made for an update on the server-side lua implementation project, and information on challenges encountered. This prompted Rider Linden to respond:

The project is moving forward, but it is a pretty complex undertaking and we need to move forward cautiously. Remember, we’re trying to swap the VM out from under 20 years worth of scripts… in place and on the fly.

– Rider Linden

• The above led to a further discussion on Lua some of which can be addressed via the Lua FAQ, although one of the the easiest to answer (“Why replace Mono”?) is perhaps best answered by the observation that the Mono version SL is running is old, and Mono itself is becoming seemingly frozen in time.  This discussion wound through the rest of the meeting.
• The Lua / Mono exchange segued into a discussion on region performance slowing as avatars enter, together with anecdotal reports of an increase in region crossings timing-out and people being logged-out as a result.
  • Monty Linden again noted the issue of avatars entering regions is being looked at, and requested that reports be filed (including locations and times) when these issues are noted.
  • To help, he has opened a report to which people can append their information via comments.
  • In terms of avatars entering regions and slowing things, he added: “Note that the recent avatar work makes entering *worse* for the offending avatar, better for those already in-region.”
• Testing llTransferOwnership has shown the function generates two confirmatory message: after opting to Accept whatever is being offered by the in-world object, recipients are hit with the messages similar to “an object owned by somebody gave you a thing”, followed by “you are now the owner of a thing. [ OK ] “.
  • The duplication of messages is in known issue, and due in part to the viewer automatically generating the first message as soon as the Accept button is pressed, whereas the second message comes from the server.
  • The implication appears to be that the viewer message will be addressed, as it can be misleading.
• An issue has been reported (and reproduced) relating to llGetEnvironment (+ related functions) returning inaccurate unit vectors for Sun / Moon position. There is some potential disagreement as to what is being seen / where the issue might reside, but it is being looked into.

Date of Next Meeting

• Tuesday, January 7th, 2025.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, December 10th, 2024 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, December 10th, 2024, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
• On Wednesday, December 11th,the RC channels will also be restarted. The planned deployment of the Apple Cobbler update to BlueSteel has been postponed for a week to allow further QA testing.

SL Viewer Updates

No updates to start the week with the current official viewers:

• Release viewer: version 7.1.10.10800445603, formerly the DeltaFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, etc), dated September 11, promoted September 17 – No change.
• Release Candidate: ExtraFPS RC, version 7.1.11.12150664210, December 5.
  • Performance improvements: enhanced texture memory tracking, broader hardware compatibility and higher FPS gain;  additional code to improve texture streaming on rigged attachments (e.g. if an earring is made with 2K textures, the viewer will correctly calculate the required resolution for the textures and download them, rather than downloading the full 2K textures), etc.
  • Aesthetics improvements: new Antialiasing setting – SMAA; Contrast Adaptive Sharpening; Khronos Neutral Tone Mapping (can be changed to ACES via the RenderTonemapType Debug setting).
  • UI Optimisations.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• A forum thread concerning “elephants in the room” in terms of SL’s “immersion breakers”. As is pointed out in the thread, what may be a “elephant” to some might not be so much so to others. Nevertheless, as Soft Linden also points out, there are lots of issues long-term users of SL have learned to “eat around,” but using the thread to highlight issues which could impact matters of retention, etc., could be useful.
• A discussion on an LSL function for text rendering based around this feature request (or should that be “feature suggestion”, given Signal Linden filed it?! The discussion also touches on the possible use of markdown and other alternatives and the use of Media on a Prim.
• A discussion on the upcoming llTransferOwnership function and possible issues.
• This spun out to a wider discussion on LSL functions, including an idea for a function called he calls “llTempWearFromInventory”:

[It] would allow you to put on a wearable from an object’s inventory, but I’ve never gotten a lot of traction to get it done. The idea was to get rid of alpha cuts on bodies by allowing mesh clothing to have it’s own alpha layer that gets applied when it is worn. On the attach from inventory, I might take the approach of it rezzes the item and attaches it as a single LSL function.

– Rider Linden

Again, this is an idea, not a function actually being worked upon. However, it sparked a conversation on the subject of alpha masking / alpha cuts, etc., with clothing.

• Rider Linden also offered a FYI – there is an LSL call coming that will allow a script to set terrain textures at the estate level.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, December 3rd, 2024 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, December 3rd, 2024, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were updated to release 2024-11-25.12013542687.
• On Wednesday, December 4th:
  • The BlueSteel RC is due to be restarted with no deployment.
  • The remaining RC channels will see a “small” update to the Barbeque (BBQ) updates, presumably bringing them to parity with the version of BBQ currently on BlueSteel.

Upcoming Simulator Releases

Apple Cobbler currently remains in testing on Aditi (regions of Mauve and Jigglypuff for those wishing to test), but is now due to start an initial deployment to the BlueSteel RC in week #50 (commencing Monday, December 9thm, 2024). Apple Cobbler includes:

• llTransferOwnership which enables a prim give itself to a new user (subject to owner permissions already set). The version on Aditi has been updated. To quote Rider Linden:

The prototype for llTransferOwnership has changed slightly. There is a new list parameter tacked to end. It does nothing at the moment, but I’ve got plans to add a few things there early in the New Year. The wiki has been updates with the new data. You will need to recompile any test scripts you might have had. [Also]  For llTransferOwnership, I’d like to add an exclusion list (transfer the item and all its contents EXCEPT for these items).  

• An extended llGiveInventory to allow for a destination folder (system folders + RLV/a) to be specified as well (+ the use of a parameter list, so further options can be added in the future).
• llMapBeacon – like llMapDestination, but a) does not necessarily open the map window; b) can optionally open the map, with or without focus. This will also require a viewer update.
• A new function for detecting attachments. If it is running with an experience it will be able to detect HUDs that also have scripts with the same experience (e.g. to ensure the correct HUDs are being used – this will not allow anyone to script to find out all the HUDs someone is using).

Following Apple Cobbler, the next simulator update is code-named Banana Bread, but its contents have yet to be defined. However Rider Linden conducted a quick poll on what those at the meeting might like to see included. – please refer to the video (29:48-35:32).

SL Viewer Updates

No updates to start the week with the current official viewers:

• Release viewer: version 7.1.10.10800445603, formerly the DeltaFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, etc), dated September 11, promoted September 17 – No change.
• Release Candidate: ExtraFPS RC, version 7.1.11.12041172537, November 27.
  • Performance improvements: enhanced texture memory tracking, broader hardware compatibility and higher FPS gain;  additional code to improve texture streaming on rigged attachments (e.g. if an earring is made with 2K textures, the viewer will correctly calculate the required resolution for the textures and download them, rather than downloading the full 2K textures), etc.
  • Aesthetics improvements: new Antialiasing setting – SMAA; Contrast Adaptive Sharpening; Khronos Neutral Tone Mapping (can be changed to ACES via the RenderTonemapType Debug setting).
  • UI Optimisations.

2K Bakes On Mesh (BOM)

Pepper Linden provided this update:

We were hoping to get 2K BOM out by the end of November [as] its been stuck in QA a while now. Unfortunately, an issue came up recently where the viewer wasn’t properly showing the lower resolutions for avatars that weren’t close up (e.g. far away). So a fix had to be made on the viewer for that (we were seeing VRMA use double for highly complex avatars with dozens upon dozens of wearables). 

There’s a few other minor things that came up, but they should all be addressed very soon [but] unfortunately I have no idea when 2K BOM will make its way here at this time, though as soon as I know, I’ll be sure to let everyone know.

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

• Leviathan Linden implemented a fix to llModPow(), noting the older implementation was inefficient and that with the update, it should now run faster under the hood.
  • It was noted the one second sleep requirement made the function fairly unusable, and Leviathan noted it could now be relaxed, and will aim to do that as a part of the Banana Bread simulator update.
• Further discussion on  llTransferOwnership().
• A general discussion on Combat 2.0 updates.
• A note that Monty Linden has been put on to poking at why avatars take time to load / de-cloud.
• A discussion on media support and Media on a Prim (MOAP) / CEF.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.