Category: SL User Group Meetings

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, May 20th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript. The notes were taken from my chat log of the meeting. Pantera also recorded the meeting, and that recording is embedded at the end of this piece – my thanks to Pantera, as always, for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• There are no planned deployments to any channels this week, only restarts.

SL Viewer Updates

•  Default viewer: 2025.03 7.1.13.14343205944, issued April 9th and promoted April 15th.
• Release Candidate: 2025.04 – 7.1.14.14911904105, updated May 13th 2025.
• Second Life Project Lua Editor Alpha,7.1.12.14888088240, updated May 13th 2025.
  • Will only work on Aditi. Blog post: Lab officially announces Luau Alpha testing.

SLua Updates

I’m going to write up an implementation of better event handling in pure SLua so that people can get a feel for the API and make suggestions before we commit to actually implementing a specific implementation in the server.

Got sidetracked improving setlinkprimitiveparamsfast perf with many PRIM_LINK_TARGETs since I saw that bogging down the SLua alpha sims but I’m back on track now 🙂

– Harold Linden (SLua development contractor)

• It was reiterated that the plan remains to move SLua to a more open beta on Agni (the Main grid), once further updates have been made by LL. (Such as the event handling and memory management mentioned). When this happens, it will initially be to a “handful of regions” prior to gaining broader deployment.
• Harold Linden indicated that most of the current Canny Feature Requests for SLua will be implemented during the beta phase of the project – although some, such as “require” will take time to “do properly”, and so there may be stopgap solutions “similar to the ones people already use for LSL that uses local pre-processing.”

Not ideal but there’s a lot of yak shaving that needs to be done to get proper “require” working with new “library” type assets and don’t want to block the rest of SLua on it. 

• In responding to a comment about an possible inter-script dependency system, he further noted:

There would be no inter-script dependencies per-se, this is more akin to pure modules that can just export types and functions etc with no shared state. More like a statically linked library that only gets evaluated when the script is compiled. It’s essentially just enabling something that people already tend to do with pre-processors, the only difference is the assets live with the rest of your stuff.

• This sparked a debate on the use of libraries, plug-ins ,etc., a lot of which is “still TBD”, other with matters of object update handing, etc. This discussion ran through must of the remaining 40 minutes of the meeting. Please refer to the video for specifics (as I am not a coder, and far from qualified to interpret all of the discussion!).
• One important additional point was raised by Harold Linden:

Oh right, I feel like I should mention, we’re trying to track down a couple potential memory corruption bugs in SLua that we’ve had trouble reproducing on our dev machines. We’re going to look at pushing a version of the server with debugging instrumentation (AddressSanitizer) to the SLua sims on beta grid. It might make things slightly slower, but it’s only temporary.

In Brief

“Missing Content on Login”

We had a repro recipe for “missing content on login” and I was able to kinda fix it. It was semi-reliable (would happen maybe 20% of the time) for one our viewer dev contractors, but I couldn’t reproduce it myself. It is “kinda” fixed in that I have eliminated some unnecessary resets during login that would help trigger the bug, with a subsequent savings of effort and bandwidth of object update data on arrival. However the root race condition that is being avoided… I didn’t actually figure that out. 

So… I would expect improvements (reduction of missing content on login) but I don’t think this fixed everything. In particular, I thought maybe it would help reduce the rate of missing attachment items on avatars, but upon more thought I realized this fix is not relevant to that problem. Anyway, heads up: this fix is expected to be in Fig Pudding [the next simulator update].

– Leviathan Linden

TP Failure and Log-in Issues

• Reports suggest that that has been a “big increase” in TP failures and login failures over the last week (I can attest to the former; having had around a 40% TP failure rate on first attempts to get somewhere on several days). Viewer logs and times incidents occurred, submitted via Canny, would be helpful in debugging issues.
• It was also noted that LL is engaged in making some network infrastructure changes, so again, a request was made for those “experiencing connectivity problems not of the usual sort or frequency” to file a Canny report would be useful. Times, places, names, and log files.
• The game_control capability remains on-hold. Leviathan Linden is currently engaged in other work, and unfortunately, game_control is is “near the bottom of” the stack of work he has on-hold as a result.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, May 13th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from my chat log of the meeting. Pantera also recorded the meeting, and that recording is embedded at the end of this piece – my thanks to Pantera, as always, for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, May 13th, the Main SLS channel was updated with the Elderberry simulator release.
• Om Wednesday, May 14th, the RC channels should be restarted without update.

Upcoming Deployment – Fig Newton (2025.06)

• Yes, the name changed in the passage of a week.
• This is still being put together, and is unlikely to surface before June, as the simulator team has been focusing on some necessary internal work which has drawn attention away from feature work on the simulators.

SL Viewer Updates

•  Default viewer: 2025.03 7.1.13.14343205944, issued April 9th and promoted April 15th.
• Release Candidate: 2025.04 – 7.1.14.14911904105, updated May 13th 2025.
• Second Life Project Lua Editor Alpha,7.1.12.14888088240, updated May 13th 2025.
  • Will only work on Aditi. Blog post: Lab officially announces Luau Alpha testing.

In Brief

• Rider Linden requested if people preferred code-names for simulator updates or their official initial version numbers (e.g. 2025.05, 2025.06).
  • Given that version umbers actually relate to minor things like RELEASE NOTES – they actually serve a use.
  • As noted by Fig Pudding Newtons, code names can change on a whim and seem pretty pointless.
  • However, it appears an attempt to use both will be used going forward 🙄(yes, I’m a carbon-based unit and I have no sense of fun‡).
• PBR Colour data is lost when setting PBR overrides was raised some time ago, but has yet to be fixed. Responding to a question on why it had not been fixed when implementing llSetLinkGLTFOverrides, Rider Linden stated:

Because when PBR was implemented they did not separate the colour value from the alpha. The two are stored internally as a single number. Since the simulator does not have the actual value from the material (it does not read materials) there is no way to change one without impacting the other. Doing so would have required a protocol change in the way overrides are sent and protocol changes are big deals since they break the viewer.

• • He went on to note that overrides are among a number of things he would like to revamp and improve upon.
• The above led to a request for creators refreshing older products with PBR to be able to supplement llSetLinkAlpha to some sort of llSetLinkPBRAlpha, without having to “dual stack” materials.
  • Rider Linden indicated that this would require adding a new function, and as such perhaps best done when overrides are being revamped, per the above comment.
  • Leviathan Linden further noted that Geenz Linden is currently thinking about how to overhaul GLTF override system, as fallout of planning on how to support object hierarchy.
• A portion of the chat was around When an object is paid the object name being recorded should be controlled by the Server and not the Viewer, seen as a particular concern among providers of Skill Games. This topic was also raised extensively at the Skill Gaming meeting.
• Most of the meeting revolved around Blinn-Phong, glTF, alpha and colour overrides, most of which I, frankly, am not qualified to talk about in a meaningful way. Please refer to the video.
• The latter half of the meeting involved the potential for physical region crossings between regions that are non-contiguous (e.g. your are on “Region A” and can “see” and “cross into” (walking, via vehicle) “Region B” directly (no actual manual teleport trigger), even though “Region B” is on the 2other side” of the grid. See: “Wormhole Regions” (Non-Cartesian region crossing).
  • This is something that has apparently been raised a lot within LL and seen and a “neat idea” and potentially possible. But it would be “way down on a list, below all sorts of important stuff to fix.”
• Leviathan Linden is still trying to work out the “sometimes objects don’t show up on login” problem. He now has a reliable repro for this issue and is using it to try to understand why and where things are going wrong.
• Off-lines not appearing on log in until relogging his become an increasing issue of late.  Commenting on the report, Leviathan Linden stated:

The fact that the off-lines show up in a second session suggests that they were never successfully requested by the viewer in the earlier session, since otherwise they would have been cleared (considered delivered) at the server. So we’re wondering: why isn’t the viewer correctly invoking some cap? 

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

‡That’s a Hitch Hiker’s Guide Reference, in case you read this far.

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, May 6th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from my chat log of the meeting. Pantera also recorded the meeting, and that recording is embedded at the end of this piece – my thanks to Pantera, as always, for providing it.

Meeting Overview

• The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
• These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Every Tuesday at 12:00 noon SLT.
  • In text (no Voice).
  • At this location.
• Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
• Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

• On Tuesday, May 6th, the Main SLS channel was restarted without any update.
• On Wednesday, May 7th:
  • BlueSteel and the snack channel running the Elderberry simulator update (see below) should be restarted.
  •  All remaining RC channels should be updated with Elderberry.

Elderberry Update (2025.05)

• A new option to llDerezObject – DEREZ_TO_INVENTORY, which returns the targeted object to inventory and saves its current state (e.g. has the same behaviour as Build → Object → Save Back to Object Contents.
• llIsLinkGLTFMaterial  – which can can determine if a face on a linked prim is PBR.
• REZFLAG_DIE_ON_NO_REZZER – which will cause a rezzed prim to die if its rezzer is no longer present in the region.
• llSetGLTFOverrides, rather than changes to llSetColor and llSetAlpha to work with PBR, as changing the latter was “starting to lead down some very scary paths WRT ‘What is the right thing to do'”.
• Possibly a fix for llSetGroundTexture, which currently has the NE & SW values swapped. The question was asked in this was in the release, but the question wasn’t fully answered.

Upcoming Deployment – Fig Pudding (2025.06)

• This is still being put together.
• The update is unlikely to surface before June, as the simulator team has been focusing on some necessary internal work (e.g. ensuring various repositories build and deploy via Github actions correctly; updating where docker images are stored) which has drawn attention away from feature work on the simulators.

SL Viewer Updates

•  Default viewer: 2025.03 7.1.13.14343205944, issued April 9th and promoted April 15th.
  • New UI element for water exclusion surfaces: Build / Edit floater → Texture Tab → Hide Water checkbox.
  • The maximum amount of Reflection Probes can now be adjusted to better accommodate low VRAM scenarios.
    • Values will be set automatically depending on your chosen graphics quality. OR
    • Use Preferences → Graphics →  Advanced Settings →  Max. Reflection Probes to manually set.
  • An issue with being unable to see Sky Altitude values in the Region/Estate window has now been resolved.
  • Preferences → Graphics → Max. # of Non-Imposters has been renamed Max. # of Animated Avatars for clarity.
  • Bug and performance fixes and memory optimisations.
• Release Candidate: 2025.04 – 7.1.14.14742193597, May 2nd 2025 – NEW.
  • Includes the following new features:
    • Chat Mentions (Early Support): Type @ then pick a name. To follow: audible alerts and highlight colour pickers.
    • My Outfits subfolders: now supports the use of subfolders.
  • Key updates:
    • Build Floater improvements: increase to scale boundaries; Physics Material Type now updates when selecting linked objects; Repeats per Meter value no longer incorrect for non-uniform sized objects
    • Hover height: the minimum/maximum is now +/- 3 meters.
    • Snapshot floater: L$ balances can be hidden independently of the rest of the UI.
    • Preference Search bar: general usability and readability improvements.
  • Refer to the release notes for full updates and fixes.
• Second Life Project Lua Editor Alpha, version 7.1.12.14175675593, April 2nd.
  • Will only work on Aditi. Blog post: Lab officially announces Luau Alpha testing.

In Brief

• A request for SLua events to be updated along the lines suggested in this canny request. Rider Linden indicated that a update will be made prior to SLua moving to wider beta testing, and will likely It will likely end up looking similar to the Canny proposal. However, there is no current time frame as to when the update will be made.
• A Canny request was filed in January for a llGetRegionWorldMapTile feature. This was reportedly now sitting in the backlog of requests and work the server team are hoping to work through in time.
  • This saw a follow-up request at the meeting to be able to zoom down to the level of centring a parcel on the map. Rider indicated that it should be possible to give the full region map as a as a texture ID, allowing scripts to adjust the offset and scale of the texture to achieve desired results.
• A discussion on regions idling (at 1 FPS(?)) when not in use (e.g. when there are no avatars in the region, no child agents registered with in and no HTTP IN/OUT functions running); the ability for llGetEnv to obtain a region’s status.
  • Regions are not completely shut-down when “empty”. as most require scripts to keep running.
  • This broadened into a discussion on how low a region takes to start-up. The most accurate might be “no long in the scheme of things, but variable”.
• In response to a question on progress with combat 2.1 features, Rider stated:

Combat 2.1 is pushed back. I’ve got no eta when that will come back up. I’d like to get it moving, I think it introduces some important additions that have impacts outside of just Combat, but there are lots of things that need doing and I can only type so fast.

• The latter half of the meeting was taken up with discussions of texture loading, the impact of alpha layering, non-optimised contents and similar, the majority of which was more viewer-centric. They arose from a complaint that Fantasy Faire is overloaded with “4K textures” (which aren’t actually a thing in SL) causing viewer performance issues.

 

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.