Month: January 2025

January 2025 SL Mobile UG meeting summary

Posted on by Inara Pey
Campwich Forest grounds: location for the Monthly Mobile User Group (MMUG)
The following notes were taken from the Thursday, January 30th 2025 Monthly Mobile User Group (MMUG) meeting.

These notes should not be taken as a full transcript of the meeting, which was largely held in Voice, but rather a summary of the key topics discussed. For this initial meeting, video recording was not permitted, we hope that changes with future meetings.
Table of Contents

Meeting Purpose

  • The Monthly Mobile User Group provides a platform to share insights on recent mobile updates and upcoming features, and to receive feedback directly from users.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
    • The last Thursday of every month at 12:00 noon SLT.
    • In Voice and text.
    • At Campwich Forest.
  • Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Re-Cap on Recent Releases

  • Version: 2025.01.538 (Android) / 0.1.530 (iOS)
  • Push notifications for group notices.
  • Mobile chat history.
  • Avatar Improvements.
  • Streaks rewards testing (see here for more).

Upcoming Updates and Roadmap

A look at upcoming features for SL Mobile based on information supplied to bloggers – including myself – at the end of 2024, and referencing my blog post on that meeting – see: Second Life Blogger Town Hall, December 2024: Mobile, marketing and more:

  • Ability to create accounts via Mobile, including creating an initial avatar and logging in using the existing new joiner workflow.
SL Mobile – the ability to create a Second Life account from within the app
  • Addition of an Address Bar to the app,  making it possible to:
    •  Search landmarks /create landmarks.
    • Share SLurls with people on other apps (Discord, Reddit, WhatsApp, etc.) via the native share cards found in Android and iOS.
    • Allow maps.secondlife.com work on the Mobile App.
Coming soon – the SL Mobile: Address Bar
  • The new Lobby feature, intended to enable communications, allow users to see who is on-line and provide general information whilst the app continues to load things like the 3D world view in the background.
    • This is also seen as a means for those on lower / mid-tier mobile devices to make use of the App as a communications tool.
Coming soon: the SL Mobile: Lobby
  • Other work in progress includes:
    • Providing quicker access to chat when using the app.
    • Providing the means to indicate which Group notifications  you wish to see pushed to your mobile device.
    • Improving in-world interactions within the app – making it easier to identify objects with which an avatar can interact, and know that something is happening when long-pressing an interactive object.
      • The identification will initially likely be the display of a timer under the finger when placed on an interactive object – when the timer expires (approx. 1 second), the interaction (e.g. a dialogue box) will be initiated.
      • Once available, this will be iterated over time to include selections form things like list views, where appropriate, limiting selection by distance, etc.

Roadmap Approach

  • Grumpity Linden reiterated the approach to Mobile development is focused on batching together requests and feedback on what users would like to see (allowing for us all having different expectation / needs / wants), to build end-to-end experiences covering a specific aspect (“journey”) in using the app.
  • To help with this, Grumpity also indicated that feedback (preferably through the Mobile app using the Feedback option in the menu) is greatly appreciated and does go into thinking about the roadmap and feature set for SL Mobile.

Avatar Rendering

  • As there are numerous differences between avatar rendering / operation in Second Life and Unity (e.g. in SL the Z axis references vertical movement; in Unity it references horizontal back / forth movement; each system handles rigged meshes differently, etc.), the entire rendering system for SL Mobile has had to be built for the ground-up over a period of over a year.
  • While much progress has been made, the team acknowledge avatar rendering within Mobile is not as yet on a par with avatar rendering in the viewer, therefore more work is to be done in this area.
  • However, because the SL avatar system is so open, there are still numerous specific issues where avatars may not render correctly in SL Mobile for assorted reasons (such the the way an attachment has been made, how it attaches to the the avatar, etc).
    • These issues require fixing on a case-by-case basis (and the team already have a library of 50 such “avatar classes”), and each one must undergone extensive regression testing to make sure any custom fix does not break avatar rendering elsewhere.
    • This is a current focus of work, and users noting persistent rendering issues as a result of clothing / attachments are asked to report it via the Mobile app’s feedback option, including information on the attachment / item which seems to cause the problem they are seeing, and where a copy of it might be obtained.
  • Once the focus can turn from the above work, there are plans to further improve avatar rendering performance, making it more efficient – and thereby improve app performance as a whole.
  • There are some tonal differences in how avatars appear SL Mobile (e.g. skin tone). This is because SL and Unity use different approaches to rendering ambient light. Again, the hope is that in time, lighting in the Mobile app can be made more “viewer-like” to help reduce such issues, but, this work will take time to develop and deploy.

Avatar Transparency Issues

  • During the run-up to the initial release of the Mobile app there was concern as to whether or not the app would get through the vetting process and onto the major app stores, particularly in terms of the risk of avatars appearing nude during rendering.
  • The transparent avatar approach was specifically to solve this risk; keeping the avatar transparent until such time as it has fully loaded and be preventing it from rendering properly should an attachment fail to apply as expected.
  • Unfortunately, the system is not fool proof, and false positives can be received which result in an avatar becoming “stuck” in the transparent mode.
  • There is thought being given to help overcome this (e.g. by forcing the avatar transparency mode to time-out after a set period to allow the avatar to complete loading), but this has yet to be finalised.
  • Those who do have repeated issues with being stuck in transparent mode, even after an outfit change (e.g. via the Desktop viewer) should file a feedback report, and if possible indicate the item they think might be causing the problem.

Memory Use (and PBR Rendering)

  • Another key difference between Mobile and the viewer is (obviously) available system and video memory.
  • Computers running the desktop viewer generally have at least 4Gb of memory to play with, with those with dedicated GPU cards also have dedicated VRAM.
  • Mobile has around 500MB-1Gb to play with. This necessarily limits Mobile in some ways (e.g. dropping texture resolutions as limits are more easily hit, etc.). However, there is work being put into this in the hope of again making Mobile more efficient in its use of memory.
  • In the meantime, the fact that memory is limited is one of the primary reasons why, as yet, there has been no attempt to implement PBR rendering into the Mobile app, and it significantly ups memory use.
  • The memory limit is also the reason why the number of avatars SL Mobile can render is set so low: avatars have a high rendering / memory cost, and can push the app to its limits, stopping other things from rendering – including leaving avatars transparent.

In Brief

  • A run-down of the top requests for Mobile (and the official viewer in some cases).
    • HUDs: something the Lab would like to implement for Mobile, but the volume and complexity of HUDs in use, the screen space they require, etc., does make coming up with a suitable means of handling them difficult.
      • The likely approach to this will again be iterative: initially offering support for very basic HUDs, and then working up from there.
      • However, team resources are such that focusing on this as a multi-month project when there are other areas of Mobile to be enhanced and features possibly more easily implemented, means it is somewhat lower on the list.
    • Inventory:
      • Another intensive task.
      • A preview of the work currently being done is in the Mobile app – the Select Outfit option, which is seen as a first step towards inventory support in Mobile.
      • Exactly what will follow this as it is implemented, is still subject to a final decision.
  • Mobile is generating a lot of new user traffic into SL, although precise metrics were not available at the meeting.

Date of Next Meeting

Looking at Streaks reward testing on the SL Mobile app

Posted on by Inara Pey
Streak rewards are available to some users of the SL Mobile app as an experiment

The most recent update to SL Mobile – version 2025.01.538 Android) / 0.1.530 (iOS), dated January 14th, 2025 – introduced an experimental rewards scheme for some of those those using the app to log-in to Second Life, in order to encourage daily engagement through the app.

Encouragement of this kind is referred to as “streaks”, and can be used as a form of incentive to encourage or maintain specific routines or achieve daily goals through game mechanics, or some form of reward in return for engagement. Snapchat for example offers “collectible” emojis to users who exchange Snaps through the app with one another on a daily basis; meanwhile Roblox includes the ability for users to build their own streaks rewards systems into their games. With SL Mobile, the rewards take the form of modest (and incremental) offerings of Linden dollars.

The idea behind the experiment with SL Mobile is to see how rewards might influence people’s use of the Mobile app – particularly those referred to as “lapsed” Second Life users; those who have walked away from the platform and who have, according to Brad Oberwager, cited a lack of Mobile access as being one of the contributing factors for them doing so. This aim was also reiterated by Bridie Linden, the Project Manager for SL Mobile during the inaugural Monthly Mobile User Group meeting.

Some of you may have noticed we are doing an experiment that is trying to encourage follows to come back to Second Life and increase their engagement. So [it is] a log-in rewards offering. Not everyone will see the same thing, because we’re trying different variations in incentives.

Bridie Linden, SL Mobile Project Manager, January 30th, 2025

As it is currently an experiment and subject to A/B testing related to the general use of SL Mobile, not all users downloading the app or currently using it will be able to engage with the streaks rewards, as Grumpity Linden also explained during the same meeting:

Currently, log-in rewards are only available to subscribers, but not all who are subscribers will have the same experience; so I’m not going to say you should subscribe if you want to get log-in rewards in Linden dollars, because that’s not always going to be the case. But if you’re already a subscriber, you should check-out Mobile, and come back every day and see whether, maybe [you have the option]– because we’re going to continue tweaking this programme. Obviously, we want people to be happy, and we want this to be successful.

– Grumpity Linden, January 30th, 2025

To find out if you are eligible to join (and have not already done so – I am intentionally late in reporting on this scheme as I’ve been poking at it for the last 8 days), proceed as follows:

  • Start SL Mobile on your device and log-in.
  • Click the Menu button (top left, three horizontal bars) to open the menu.
  • If you are eligible to join the experiment, you will have a Streaks button displayed in your menu Highlighted below, left).
  • Tap the Streaks button to opt-in to the scheme and start the clock counting down to when you can claim your first rewards (which appears to be set to L$15 for everyone).
Those who are included in the initial testing can opt-in to the Streaks rewards by going to SL Mobile’s menu and tapping the Streaks icon (if available), to opt-in to the the rewards
  • Note the two sliders t the bottom of the Streaks screen allowing you toggle daily streak messages as soon as you log-in to the app off/ on, and to opt out / in to Streaks, both of which are enabled (“on” and opted-in) by default.

Once you have joined Streaks, rewards can be claimed daily, starting with the initial L$15. In addition, please note:

  • The amount of the reward offered each day increments (e.g. L$15 on “day 1”; L$20 on “day 2”).
  • The amount by which the daily rewards increments also increases the longer a streak continues (e.g. rising from a L$5  increment per day to (first) L$10 increments per day).
  • Streaks appear to last for 7 consecutive days before the reward amount automatically resets to L$15 (or you miss a daily log-in), and you start over again.

To claim a daily reward:

  • Log-in to the SL Mobile app. Your Streaks status should be automatically displayed unless you have turned off the daily login message, in which case, open the app’s menu and tap the Streaks button.
  • The display should tell you the amount available to claim, and the incremented amount that will be available for you to claim in 24-hours’ time (below left).
  • Tap the Claim button to claim the available amount and have it added to your SL amount L$ balance, and update your Streaks status (below centre).
Claiming daily Streaks is required to transfer them to your account L$ balance (left and centre). Streaks appear to rest to the baseline L$15 after around 7 days
  • Per the notes above,  Streaks rewards appear to increment of a 7-day period, and then reset to the initial L$15 (see the image above right) and build up again. However, whether this is an infinite cycle or also limited; I have no idea.

As a means of encouraging users (current and “lapsed” to use SL Mobile, this is an interesting approach; I’d been particularly interested in how much traction it gets amount its intended primary audience  – “lapsed” users – over time, and in how well it might act as incentive as new users are able to sign-up to Second Life through the app. However, we’ll hear more on both in due course.

The windmills of Zaanse Schans in Second Life

Posted on by Inara Pey
Zaanse Schans, January 2025 – click any image for full size

Some 15 kilometres north of central Amsterdam and on the east bank of the Zaan river, sits Zaanse Schans. Today regarded as something of a neighbourhood of Zaandam, it is a place of historic and cultural significance. It is also a destination for tourists, forming as it does a part of the European Route of Industrial Heritage (ERIH).

Originally a fortification – or sconce – built during the country’s Eighty Years’ War for independence from Spain, it became particularly famous in the modern era after a huge preservation operation was put into motion in the 1960s through early 1970s. This saw traditional Dutch Zaanse houses and windmills considered to be of cultural and historic value being carefully uplifted and moved from the area referred to as the Zaanstreek, north of Amsterdam, and relocated at Zaanse Schans, where they joined two windmills already in existence on the bank of the river there.

Zaanse Schans, January 2025

Today, backed by tulip fields, Zaanse Schans is home to  around a dozen windmills, seven museums, craft shops, historic Zaan-style houses, public gardens, and so on, all linked together by footpaths, cycle tracks, bridges, and waterways to offer an informative and cultural visit.

But most famously of all, there are the dozen windmills, many of which are also open to visitors, and which collectively demonstrate some of the many different uses to which these mills were put: cutting wood, grinding chalk, grinding seeds to make oil – even making paint! They stand as a living reminder of a time when wind was a major source of power, and when the region in which they stand was once home to an estimated 600 windmills to form a vital part of Netherland’s economy.

Zaanse Schans, January 2025

Even the names of the mills at Zannse Schans are somehow magical, breathing further life into them: De Bonte Hen (an oil mills dating back to 1693); De Zoeker (an oil, paint, and cocoa mill); De Kat (built in 1781, and the only working paint making windmill in the world); De Gekroonde Poelenburg (a Dutch paltrok mill, specifically design for sawing wood, and one of only five of it kind to survive to this day); and so on. Along the Zaanse, they stand brightly painted and well-maintained, and for those of us in Second Life who cannot get to see them first-hand, Jade Koltai presents a setting inspired by their timeless presence with her latest region design, Zaanse Schans.

Caught under a slowly brightening morning sky with the lowlands seeping mist into the air above them, this is an immediately visually engaging design. Visitors are greeted on one side by neat rows of tulips marching across the region, and on the other by the shadowy forms of four tall windmills guarding what might be taken as the bank of the broad river, the far side of which is little more than a misty silhouette. Like those of the real Zaanse Schans, not all of these windmills are the same, although all four carry their hoods and sails, some turning lazily in the breeze.

Zaanse Schans, January 2025

Rutted trails border the tulips in their field, and like the tracks and paths of its physical world namesake, these trails can be cycled along, courtesy of the rezzer near the landing point, or one can walk across the grassland to the windmills, all but one of which offers sitting of some from without itself or close by. Further places to sit await discovery along the banks  of the “river” and the bays to either side, the walk / ride to them allowing visitors to engage in a little bird-watching along the way.

One of these places to sit appears to have been set-up by an angler eager to get an early start on a day’s catch; four fish already lie in a crate for transport home, while the little makeshift bohemian bench and sun shade they’ve erected is a cosy spot for two. Elsewhere, bees are being cultivated for their honey, their hives adorned with flowers to reduce their journey time, and the air is rich with the early morning calls of birds eager to start their day.

Zaanse Schans, January 2025

No Zaan-style houses are to be found here; instead something of a counterpoint between ancient and modern is offered: across the fields from the old windmills, three giant wind turbines raise their slender fingers to the sky, their great blades turning slowly.

Whilst the old windmills with their four sails apiece might not fool Alonso Quijano into thinking he was facing giants, one wonders what he might make of the great towers and pumping arms of the wind turbines. Indeed, seeing them across the fields perhaps causes another pause for thought: the windmills of Zaanse Schans have stood for around 400 years; would our our modern alternatives stand nearly so long?

Zaanse Schans, January 2025

Atmospheric and best seen under its Shared Environment, photogenic, tranquil and perfectly stated, Jade’s Zaanse Schans is an absolute delight to visit and see. Those wishing to rez props for photographs should join the local group (but please clean-up after!).

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Art and Tree Stories in Second Life

Posted on by Inara Pey
IMAGOLand Art Gallery: Mareea Farrasco – Tree Stories

Tree Stories is the title of an exhibition of paintings by Mareea Farrasco she is hosting within one of the gallery spaces within her IMAGOLAND art gallery space. On display are 16 images featuring trees or which include elements of wood, each one very much a single-frame story and / or commentary on life and its history, folding into itself explorations of ideas and notions in a manner that ins intentionally provocative.

Tree are an integral part of our daily lives in various ways – whether through their tangible physical presence in our surroundings, remarkable in their singularity or as part of forests, orchards and more. They have served humanity from the very beginning through their wooden materiality, fulfilling our needs, and they continue to inspire through their spiritual significance as cultural, social, historical, mythical and artistic symbols. The Tree Stories exhibition offers a partial and subjective perspective on some of the forms and meanings of this nearly omnipresent object and concept.

– Mareea Farrasco

IMAGOLand Art Gallery: Mareea Farrasco – Tree Stories

Simply and directly painted in a marvellously minimalist style, each piece is rich in dualities of context; a visual agent provocateur, so to speak, to stir our grey matter. Each image offers a simple surface message – which might be a reflection on the simple role of the tree as a symbol of life and growth or beauty and comfort, or something similar – together with a deeper, potentially provocative commentary on our complex and often violent relationship with religion and spirituality.

To take just one example: Temptation. The tree and apple speak to the ability of trees to provide sustenance for us through the provision of fruits, whilst almost bringing to might the myth of the tree of knowledge of  good and evil (or more literally, “of everything”), and all that followed it within the tale of Genesis; thus, the tree can be seen as having been with us – in terms of the Biblical history of mankind – from the very beginning.

IMAGOLand Art Gallery: Mareea Farrasco – Tree Stories

Engaging, complex, rich in symbolism, Tree Stories opened on January 27th, 2025, and will remain open for at least a month.

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2025 week #5: SL SUG meeting summary (2K BoM update)

Posted on by Inara Pey
Luane’s World – Le Monde Perdu, December 2024 – blog post

The following notes were taken from the Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. They form a summary of the items discussed, and are not intended to be a full transcript, and were taken from Pantera’s video of the meeting, which is embedded at the end – my thanks to her for providing it.

Meeting Overview

  • The Simulator User Group (also referred to by its older name of Server User Group) exists to provide an opportunity for discussion about simulator technology, bugs, and feature ideas.
  • These meetings are conducted (as a rule):
  • Meetings are open to anyone with a concern / interest in the above topics, and form one of a series of regular / semi-regular User Group meetings conducted by Linden Lab.
  • Dates and times of all current meetings can be found on the Second Life Public Calendar, and descriptions of meetings are defined on the SL wiki.

Simulator Deployments

  • On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025, the simulators on the Main SLS channel were restarted with no update.
  • On Wednesday, January 29th, 2025 the RC channels will be restarted, most likely without any deployment.
    • It had been hoped that Banana Bread, the next simulator update, would be deployed to the BlueSteel channel; however, this is likely to be held over until next week due to a late-break issues.

SL Viewer Updates

  • Default viewer: version 7.1.11.12363455226, formerly the ExtraFPS RC (multiple performance fixes, aesthetic improvements and UI optimisations), dated December 17, promoted December 20 – No Change.
  • Release Candidate: Forever FPS, version 7.1.12.12935708795, January 24, 2025.
    • Numerous crash and performance fixes.

2K Bakes on Mesh Update

We have some exciting news regarding 2k bake — it’s no longer blocked, and we are in the process of scheduling a deploy. We anticipate this making its way to Agni within the next few weeks (ideally sooner than later), hopefully at the next SUG I’ll have a specific date.

– Pepper Linden

In Brief

Please refer to the video below for the following:

  • Rider Linden noted that he is not yet in a position to work  on Combat 2.1 (see the Proposal specification + feedback).
  • There was a question concerning the surfacing of llSetAgentRot. Leviathan Linden responded:
Viewer feature development is basically blocked right now. The viewer dev team is focused on FPS improvements. Meanwhile, there has been some pileup of viewer features in the develop branch, but a few months of work there is not included in ForeverFPS [the current RC viewer] viewer. The ForeverFPS viewer project does not want to pull in all of the pileup of changes in develop: they don’t want to destabilize the FPS improvements they are working on.
  • Leviathan further indicated his viewer-side Game control work is similarly held-up, which led to a conversation on getting the capability out in some form.
  • Rider Linden hinted that there is “exciting news” in the Lua(u) scripting project “on the horizon”.
  • A discussion on this forum thread, outlining some of what is seen as SL’s major technical issues. Leviathan Linden re-iterated he’s working on one of these issues: that of slow loading on avatars and in-world objects on log-in / following a teleport.
  • A discussion on possible issues about linkset messaging and linkset data.

† The header images included in these summaries are not intended to represent anything discussed at the meetings; they are simply here to avoid a repeated image of a rooftop of people every week. They are taken from my list of region visits, with a link to the post for those interested.

Ihrydia’s mystical charm in Second Life

Posted on by Inara Pey
Realm of Ihrydia, January 2025 – click any image for full size

Sitting within the north-eastern quarter of a Full region leveraging the private region Land Capacity bonus, sits the Realm of Ihrydia. The work of Second Life partners Kal and Lily Shade, it presents a ground-level setting open to exploration, and a sky platform event and store location.

The Landing Point (not enforced) lies on the east coast, where information on the setting can be obtained via a notecard giver, and the teleport station up to the Duplexity store and event space can be found – which I’ll touch on below. The Landing Point recommends the use of the local Shared Environment, and I’d agree with it; the setting as a somewhat ethereal feel to it which is enhanced by the ambient environment settings.

Realm of Ihrydia, January 2025
Welcome to the ethereal realm of Ihrydia, nestled amidst towering trees and shimmering glades, the land beckons adventurers and seekers of magic to explore its hidden mysteries.
Here, the air is alive with the hum of arcane energies, and every leaf holds the promise of discovery. Wander through enchanted groves where time seems to stand still, or lose yourself in the labyrinthine paths that wind through the heart of the forest.

– From the description of Ihrydia by lily and Kal Slade

A path winds inland from the Landing Point, almost immediately branching as it does so, one arm almost doubling back on itself. It leads to stone steps that curve gently as they climb a rocky promontory, guiding visitors up to a great stone tower topped by a circular room. The climb to this room is eased by the fact that touching the door at the base of the tower will TP you upwards, depositing you in the fire-warmed room and amidst its mysteries.

Realm of Ihrydia, January 2025

Getting down from the tower might at first seem a little harder: for no obvious door or stair presents itself. However, those who look to the hearth and press may find the way to return to the ground as intended.

The tower stands at the end of a line of hills marching the north coast until they reach the parcel’s western boundary. Whilst perhaps not the easiest climb from their eastern extent, these hills are home to points of interest and are more easily traversed from their western end. This can be reached by following the second arm of the track leading away from the Landing Point track as it winds its way from the shore and passing by way of a cottage built into the bole of a tree, and stair leading to the highlands along the south side of the Realm, arriving at a great hall.

Realm of Ihrydia, January 2025

Of grand design, the hall mixes influences – elven, Norse (Mjölnir sits outside the main doors), Grecian, and Medieval – and is guards by a young warrior woman, Nylathria, who is non too keen on talking! The the right of this great hall, the path rises to the hills mentioned above, marking the start of the easiest way to explore them. To the Hall’s left the path leads to both a memorial garden / burial area to the rear of the building, and to a large cavern of light, flowers and water which in turn leads to a hidden garden tuck between the south side uplands and the sheer cliffs of the parcel boundary.

Ihrydia welcomes all who yearn for a connection with nature and a taste of the mystical. Whether you seek tranquility in the embrace of ancient oak trees, seek knowledge in the archives of the elven sages, or simply wish to marvel at the beauty of a land untouched by time.

– From the description of Ihrydia by lily and Kal Slade

Realm of Ihrydia, January 2025

Reached via the broad stairs noted earlier, these southern uplands are most keenly elven in influence. On the lower of two plateaux, and directly overlooking the Landing Point trail, is a grand elven hall (a design by Compulsion Overdrive I’ve long admired). Guarded by stone Cerberus and fantastical beings, it is open to visitors to appreciate, just as is the great hall.

Upon the upper plateau is a citadel and garden, beautiful ethereal in looks and wreathed in tranquillity. It is within this garden that a further teleport portal can be found, also offering a way up to Duplexity, Kal’s PBR store selling a range of furnishings, décor, lighting, etc., all within an environment within is both futuristic (using one of Colpo Wexler’s buildings as its base design), as well as continuing the more mystical look and feel of the ground level in the surrounding grounds, within which the small events area can be found.

Realm of Ihrydia, January 2025

With several places to sit neatly tucked away (or out in the open!), hints of the magical and the mysterious, together with touches of the present: Christmas desserts in the gazebo, a steaming hot tub within the citadel, and with plenty of opportunities for photography, Realm of Ihrydia makes for an engaging, fantasy-oriented visit.

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